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Alarm to take over from Smartlock 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:39 am 
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i think your on the wrong track here...
smartlock is merely an immboliser, it has nothting to do with interior light delays etc.
yes, half of "smartlock" is incorporated into the BCM but all it does is looks for a valid key and acts accordingly.

most aftermarkey alarms/immobs will run the interior light same as the factory bcm and have an option to give you a delay on close of door

Quote:
For what I want, I figure all I need to find is the output from the radio receiver in the BEM that triggers the interior light.

this wont be required as with an aftermarket system, you will no longer need or will be using the std ford remote (unless you use an "upgrade" alarm which keeps your stock remote)

You let the aftermarket system control everything, however you need to bypass the 'power saver' function of the bcm if you want to open the boot etc with your aftermarket system.

Dont trust a chinese system to do what you want it to do, theres nothing to stop it from unlocking and starting the car when the cars unattended. (also the ones on ebay are not blackwired, and they publically post the wiring diagrams!!)
I would keep the stock ign barrel in its place and use a start button to only trigger the starter. In this case - think of your key as an isolator switch.
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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:30 am 
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snap0964 wrote:
MAD wrote:
So with that set up the interior light stays on for the standard fade when you lock but it doesn't trigger the alarm?
Latching relay opens/closes the interior light return line to the BEM, SPST relay momentarily earths the courtesy light switch line.
So on unlock, interior lights come on for 20 secs and fade off, on lock, lights go out if on.

That sounds just about perfect.
Let's see if I've got this...
On unlock the latching relay gives interior light control to the BEM, at the same time as the SPST relay acts like a door switch and triggers the light.
On lock, the latching relay cuts the return to the BEM and forcibly shuts off the light.

This would require separate door switches to sense entry wouldn't it?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:59 am 
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66 coupe wrote:
i think your on the wrong track here...
smartlock is merely an immboliser, it has nothting to do with interior light delays etc.
yes, half of "smartlock" is incorporated into the BCM but all it does is looks for a valid key and acts accordingly.
I know smartlock is only the immobiliser, and the remotes are simply the keyless entry and nothing to do with 'smartlock'

most aftermarkey alarms/immobs will run the interior light same as the factory bcm and have an option to give you a delay on close of door
Yeah the alarm can take over the interior light, That has already been mentioned. But seeing as it's originally controlled by the BEM, how do you go about getting it to turn on via the interior light switch at the headlight switch?
This is why I want it to integrate with the BEM rather than take it over.


Quote:
For what I want, I figure all I need to find is the output from the radio receiver in the BEM that triggers the interior light.

this wont be required as with an aftermarket system, you will no longer need or will be using the std ford remote (unless you use an "upgrade" alarm which keeps your stock remote)
I'm not sure what you're saying here. I'm talking internal to the BEM regarding intercepting the trigger from the radio receiver.
Plus, an upgrade alarm is never going to have the features I want, so it was never an option to ever be considered.


You let the aftermarket system control everything, however you need to bypass the 'power saver' function of the bcm if you want to open the boot etc with your aftermarket system.
I was going to cut and rewire the boot so it bypassed the BEM to remove this issue

Dont trust a chinese system to do what you want it to do, theres nothing to stop it from unlocking and starting the car when the cars unattended. (also the ones on ebay are not blackwired, and they publically post the wiring diagrams!!)
Who said anything about chinese?
What do you mean nothing to stop it unlocking and starting by itself? What would cause that to happen without input?
Whatever alarm I choose will be based on research, some of which will comprise of personal experience and actual usage results.
I'm not concerned about black wiring. I think we're the only country to have this rule, and I'm sure it's just because some insurance douche heard the idea and thought '"wow!", when really all it achieves is to make it bloody hard to diagnose a fault in the wiring.


I would keep the stock ign barrel in its place and use a start button to only trigger the starter. In this case - think of your key as an isolator switch.
This would void the entire point of this excercise. The thought of leaving the key in the ignition the whole time, crossed my mind, but only for a second as it's just too enticing

 

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:58 pm 
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MAD wrote:
snap0964 wrote:
MAD wrote:
So with that set up the interior light stays on for the standard fade when you lock but it doesn't trigger the alarm?
Latching relay opens/closes the interior light return line to the BEM, SPST relay momentarily earths the courtesy light switch line. So on unlock, interior lights come on for 20 secs and fade off, on lock, lights go out if on.
That sounds just about perfect. Let's see if I've got this...
On unlock the latching relay gives interior light control to the BEM, at the same time as the SPST relay acts like a door switch and triggers the light.On lock, the latching relay cuts the return to the BEM and forcibly shuts off the light.This would require separate door switches to sense entry wouldn't it?
Pretty much correct - lock & unlock lines control latching relay, unlock line controls the SPST relay for that momentary earth (which essentially acts like a door courtesy switch). Door switches remain untouched - remember they join and go to the BEM, as does the return line from the interior lights. They are the same colour (blue/black), so don't get them confused.
For the boot, probably best to retain the EFII/EL timeout on boot power - from memory, boot switch provides 12v to the solenoid, earth is already there ? You could have the alarm giving 12v to the line. I think most alarms are setup for earth on the boot.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:29 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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snap0964 wrote:
MAD wrote:
snap0964 wrote:
MAD wrote:
So with that set up the interior light stays on for the standard fade when you lock but it doesn't trigger the alarm?
Latching relay opens/closes the interior light return line to the BEM, SPST relay momentarily earths the courtesy light switch line. So on unlock, interior lights come on for 20 secs and fade off, on lock, lights go out if on.
That sounds just about perfect. Let's see if I've got this...
On unlock the latching relay gives interior light control to the BEM, at the same time as the SPST relay acts like a door switch and triggers the light.On lock, the latching relay cuts the return to the BEM and forcibly shuts off the light.This would require separate door switches to sense entry wouldn't it?
Pretty much correct - lock & unlock lines control latching relay, unlock line controls the SPST relay for that momentary earth (which essentially acts like a door courtesy switch). Door switches remain untouched - remember they join and go to the BEM, as does the return line from the interior lights. They are the same colour (blue/black), so don't get them confused.
For the boot, probably best to retain the EFII/EL timeout on boot power - from memory, boot switch provides 12v to the solenoid, earth is already there ? You could have the alarm giving 12v to the line. I think most alarms are setup for earth on the boot.

Of course... I was confused in my head about what the latching relay does, thinking it cut the doors as well as the light. Makes perfect sense now.

For the boot I didn't mean totally remove the BEM from it (but that wouldn't be hard either, but the security of the timeout is a valuable feature though), but have the alarm work around it in a way that the timeout didn't affect it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:21 pm 
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All you have to do is splice the alarm boot line to the boot solenoid power.

As I say, many alarms assume this is an earth control - open your alarm module, and mod the relay to give out 12v.

The boot timeout isn't too hard to beat - to reset, remove the CRT LP fuse, and put it back in.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:06 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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if your not concerned about interior light delay being active when you lock the car, you do not need to mess around with latching relays etc etc, just let the BCM do its job and wire the alarm/immob into the back of BCM. Its really not all that hard :roll:
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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:35 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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66 coupe wrote:
if your not concerned about interior light delay being active when you lock the car, you do not need to mess around with latching relays etc etc, just let the BCM do its job and wire the alarm/immob into the back of BCM. Its really not all that hard :roll:
I don't know where you and I seem to be getting mixed up.
First you suggest the smartlock bypass when I already stated that I had it covered, then you suggested that I go for starter operation only for the start button when I clearly said I want 100% keyless, and now this.

Just to clarify, I am concerned with the interior light delay.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:04 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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well as an auto elec i am looking at it from an installer point of view,
in any case, i'll leave you to it then.
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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:29 pm 
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What do you mean "installer point of view"? Is that code for "it's too hard, we'll do it our way"?

I would have thought, as an installer, you should do what the customer wants, or give the job to someone else.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:43 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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no mate as an installer, I know how the BCM operates and how to hang an aftermarket system off the back of it. ie I know how to get aftermarket systems to deal with interior light delays etc without too much external hardware. The more relays and external hardware you install, the less reliable it will be as there are more components prone to failure.

In regards to fitting a system like the one you want to fit, yes, personally I will give that job to someone else mate, someone who doesnt care about the paying customers vehicle security, because I will not compromise a customers cars security just so they can unlock their doors by proximity, and push a button to start it.

Trust me when I say i've seen chinese electronics do all sorts of random stuff like unlock doors overnight, wireless controllers operating electric winches automatically causing damage to the vehicle and winch overnight.

95% of the systems on the market with PKE are chinese. 99% of those have NO QUALITY CONTROL.

My customers pay me to make their cars more secure, not less secure.
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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:05 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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66 coupe wrote:
no mate as an installer, I know how the BCM operates and how to hang an aftermarket system off the back of it. ie I know how to get aftermarket systems to deal with interior light delays etc without too much external hardware. The more relays and external hardware you install, the less reliable it will be as there are more components prone to failure.
I haven't spent a lot of time pawing over the BEM schematics yet as I haven't chosen an alarm.

How do you go about getting the alarm to work together with the interior light?
Does it work as per factory? (On with 'unlock', off with 'lock', and turn on with the interior light switch)

 

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:40 pm 
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And how do you get lower spec alarms to blip the siren or horn when you try to lock the car by remote with a door not properly closed ??

 

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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i thought got guys alerady had that sorted? lol

both of what you asked are easily doable,
theres more than one way to handle the interior light depending on what system you install.
Beeping the siren on door or boot or bonnet open is also not a problem with any system that controls central locking
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 Post subject: Re: Alarm to take over from Smartlock
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:19 pm 
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66 coupe wrote:
i thought got guys alerady had that sorted? lol

both of what you asked are easily doable,
theres more than one way to handle the interior light depending on what system you install.
Beeping the siren on door or boot or bonnet open is also not a problem with any system that controls central locking
Someone has it sorted, I'm the one chasing the answers.
The only stuff I'm sorted on at the moment is bypassing smartlock, and getting around the boot release timeout.

You didn't answer either of my questions.
I can understand not answering the first one if you have a trade secret you don't wish to give away.
But you didn't answer my second question either. Let's base this answer on a high feature non-upgrade alarm.

 

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