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EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!! 

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:45 pm 
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The only thing I can think of is that this ECU 6TAA that i am trying is an Auto ECU!!
Hence why I am getting hardcore flat spots, bucking and rough idle but fine with the XG manual ECU

There has to be a logical explanation for this

Also I am running EB-ED ignition leads, this wouldnt cause a problem would it???

What happens if you run an Auto ECU with no resistor trick in an E series?

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:24 pm 
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okay so today I reset my ECU as I thought this would probably be a good idea since I reset the timing.....

The car idled alot better but was still a little bit lumpy. I took it out onto the road and it hesitated a bit before it took off like a rocket. After driving it around for a while, when it was warmer there was very little hesitation but you could tell it was there, usually in 5th or 4th cruising around 1500rpm.

The car will pull hard if you plant it with no hesitation noticeable in the higher rev range. It is only in the lower rev range.

I am running an AU standard fuel rail with a 280kpa fuel reg (i think) with AU injectors. The engine is standard apart from extractors, exhaust and the BBM.

Do you think it could be the tickford fuel maps giving me a hard time as my car does not have the xr6 cam, head or compression???

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:57 pm 
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I have just finished the same conversion, AU motor into XG with BBM and Thermos using EL ECU with TI Performance J3 chip.After your last comment i could only suggest to check the timing to suit EL ecu.You sound like it's getting closer.I don't run the knock sensor either. Good Luck. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:08 pm 
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The other thing that made a big difference for the better was to disconnect the ISC.No more revs hanging.
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:27 pm 
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Thats the one thing I dont suffer from. I have absolutely zero rev hang and my ISC works correctly as it should!!!!

I just need to sort out this hesitation stuff. Maybe i might need a j3 chip and some time on the dyno to sort out these fuel maps if this is the problem???

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:22 pm 
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I take it you're running the std cam ?? XG which is EB/ED (91DA-xxxx).
Did you change the XG throttle pedal to an EF/EL one ??
The pedal can make the throttle very clunky, sits too high also.
You'd think though running the XG ECU would still have the crook throttle.
IMO you need the correct cam to suit the tune - I fitted an EF/EL cam to my XH when I did the BBM convo, along with an EL auto ECU (car is manual), ran fine with the resistors.
I've had debates with others saying the cams are all the same - they aren't - there are duration and overlap differences. You will find aftermarket cams are the same for most of the different models.

Saltez! wrote:
What happens if you run an Auto ECU with no resistor trick in an E series?
Idles at around 1200 rpm, thermo fans run continuously. I run my XH like that for testing, and the throttle was still quite good.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:45 pm 
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OH!! so was the camshaft different from EB-ED to EL??? Hmm this might be the problem when its cold in the morning it bucks and hesitates like crazy if you put your foot down to take off normally. Do you think this is because it is using the default maps for the more aggressive camshaft?

I wonder how different the camshafts are?? The Standard EL AUTO ECU that i was using ran fine when the car was out of closed loop after it warmed up. I only had the problems with it bucking and hesitating in the morning. The same symptoms as the EL manual xr6 ECU I have now. But with the EL xr6 ecu I am also getting slight hesitation even when the car is warmed up and I put my foot down. (Yes i did put all the resistors back to normal when I put the manual ecu in)

I thought the other ECU might have been faulty thats why I bought this EL manual XR6 one. But it appears that this may have made matters worse because this is expecting an even more aggressive cam.

But what about all those guys out there running EL ECU's in their EB-ED's???? They all wouldnt be running aftermarket camshafts would they???

I am also running the standard XG pedal. Would it make much difference getting the EL pedal? I mean doesn't the pedal just pull the throttle body open, or am I missing something?

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:01 pm 
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If you're running an EF/EL throttle cable, use the same EF/EL pedal. I ran the XH pedal (same as EB/ED/XG) with the EF/EL cable, throttle was crap. As I said, pedal sat higher, was terrible.

What I'm talking about aftermarket cams, is they'll suit a no of models, log manifold or BBM, as they're to suit an application - e.g. low torque, mid range, etc.

I'd suggest running an EF/EL cam - should be cheap, or someone might be able to give you one. Run the EL auto ECU, with resistors, and sell the XR ECU for a bucketload of money. Fuel reg should be okay, std for EF/EL is 270kpa. At least then you're tune should be theoretically optimal.
A converter/mixer LPG system seems to me to be more tolerant of tuning changes like this, compared to petrol EFI - that's probably why it runs better than petrol in this scenario.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:12 pm 
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Well as much as I hate to say it, I think i might have to head down to a decent tuner is SA and get a j3 chip or something to fix up this problem......

I might chuck in a half decent camshaft before I go there though..

Is there any particular way to see if it is over fuelling or underfuelling causing the hesitation?

I just don't want to keep it this way for any period of time if its running lean and will damage my engine.

Does anyone know of any place in SA that does decent cams??? Or should I just pay the postage and try to get one from wade or crescent motorsport?

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:40 am 
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You shouldn't really need a J3 chip at this stage, do as I suggested - shouldn't cost you much to do, if anything.
What rocker cover are you running??

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:19 am 
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Interesting.
I didnt change the timing on my ED at all. I did a full serpentine conversion and a BBM. It ran well with the ED ECU, but didnt activate the broadband. I then switched to an EL ecu and added the vacuum switch for the broadband, and it ran sweet. I have just converted it to LPG and still have no issues.

Good luck.
Brett

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:25 am 
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I am currently running the EL rocker cover.........

Do you think that this may have something to do with it?

I'm heaps annoyed, I had the opportunity to buy an EL futura manual ecu and I decided to pick the XR6 one!!!!! ARGGHH I made the wrong decision!!!

LOL and good luck me trying to sell this Manual XR6 EL ECU on here now after this post!!!

Oh well thems the breaks!!!

How did the serpentine conversion go??? I was thinking about doing that but I'm pretty much sure you have to change the power steering pump, and alternator (different pulleys). I was also concerned that my block may not have the bolt holes for the actual spring loaded tensioner??
Did you change the harmonic balancer or did u just use the same one? as currently the air con runs on a serpentine belt..

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:21 am 
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imo its a waste of time changing the cam unless its an aftermarket cam..
as debated a few times, :roll: the cams from eb to el are the same, ive got all factory specs and the cams are all the same from eb 4.0 to early el. so why spend money and time changing to another std cam...
if you want a std cam thats different,get a 3.9mpfi cam this is the only std cam that has different duration other than the xr6 cam... the differences are in the ecu mapping and manifold.. ive run a bbm and el ecu on a std ea 3.9, a std eb and ed 4.0l and all had no issues with running..actually the 3.9 performed the best out of the ones i did..
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:02 am 
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Yeah I thought it would be a waste of time too with changing the cams, I'm with you troyman, if your gonna change it throw in an after market one. I guess snap0964 is just trying to eliminate fuel mapping as being the issue with my car at the moment......

I'm starting to believe that it is infact the fuel mapping as the EL Auto ECU i was running did not hesitate once the car was warmed up, only when cold. The EL Xr6 Manual ECU hesitates when cold and is slightly noticeable under light acceleration when warmed up. The XG ECU gives no hesitation as all throughout the rev range and runs great. Cold or warm

I'm just trying to figure out why I am having these problems!!! My engine is a reconditioned one and probably only has around 60,000 on it from when it was reconditioned!! Only thing I can think of is something is out of spec in there giving my ECU a hard time to learn around. But then again, wouldnt this problem be apparent with the XG ECU??

If its not the fuel maps, then what else could it be????

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:25 pm 
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TROYMAN wrote:
the cams from eb to el are the same, ive got all factory specs and the cams are all the same from eb 4.0 to early el.
My ford specs must be a misprint - the differences aren't huge. The cam part nos are different too.
TROYMAN wrote:
so why spend money and time changing to another std cam...
That's why I said he should be able to be given a cam - maybe from another forum member.
TROYMAN wrote:
the differences are in the ecu mapping and manifold.. ive run a bbm and el ecu on a std ea 3.9, a std eb and ed 4.0l and all had no issues with running..actually the 3.9 performed the best out of the ones i did..
With the slight variations in cam specs, you won't feel any noticeable difference - thing is you won't know if the tune is exactly correct through the rev range. Why would ford make slight changes to these cams if they didn't need to ??
Saltez! wrote:
I am currently running the EL rocker cover.........
Do you think that this may have something to do with it?
I'm thinking running the EF/EL cable with XG pedal is a prob - can always borrow an EF/EL pedal from someone to sort out this one.
Saltez! wrote:
I'm heaps annoyed, I had the opportunity to buy an EL futura manual ecu and I decided to pick the XR6 one!!!!! ARGGHH I made the wrong decision!!!LOL and good luck me trying to sell this Manual XR6 EL ECU on here now after this post!!!
It's not the ECU's fault - the engine tune doesn't match - 300 kpa fuel reg, XR cam. Put your EL ECU's back into the cars they came out of, and you'll find they'll run fine.
Saltez! wrote:
I guess snap0964 is just trying to eliminate fuel mapping as being the issue with my car at the moment......
Nearly, just matching components as per factory, so your baseline tune is correct - you need to get this sorted first. The cam change is a sideways step, but needs to be sorted IMO.
As per Forrest Gump - that's all I have to say on that . . . . . .

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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