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EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!! 

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Yeah its definitely 2DLA

My XG is May 1993.......
Do you think this could possibly be an old school LPG computer or something??

Hmm we might be getting somewhere now.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:40 pm 
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TROYMAN wrote:
changing the pedal will only change the rate of pedal travel, wont do anything for the way the engine runs..although if you fit the ef/el pedal it will feel more responsive as it will be giving you more throttle with less pedal travel....
It will also setup the throttle as per the factory BBM setup.
Saltez! wrote:
My XG is May 1993.......
First of the smartlock XG's was supposedly Jun 93 - yours must have this or a bypass for injector enable, is the ECU a pre smartlock ??

 

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97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:58 pm 
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Yes your right. My XG does not have smart lock. The XG ECU is pre smart lock.

I purchased a smart lock bypass unit so I could run the EL ECU. This is the same as what I have got.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Smartlock-Module ... 2a0f3f5d8c

Do you think smart lock might have something to do with it???? If there was something wrong with the bypass module it would mean the car wouldn't start and just turn over, wouldn't it??

The main issue I'm having is the hardcore hesitation and bucking when the car is cold in the morning. It feels like the car is getting no fuel and it just won't go anywhere. Sort of feels like it is firing incorrectly or timing is way wrong or something. (but the timing is set properly at 0 degrees TDC) Once its warmed up it will operate but then I get a slight hesitation under load at low rpm. But all seems to disappear with the XG ECU in there.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:31 am 
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2DLA is ok.

I have it listed as 4L Manual/Wagon Non smartlock. So you must have a smartlock bypass or my notes are wrong.

Don't worry about the Wagon part, XG's didn't seem to have separate part# and just used EB/ED ECU's

I don't have much more idea's for you sorry. Just this, EA - ED Ecu's have richer idle fuel cells than EF-EL, where EA-ED have 13.95 and ED/EL have 14.6, it may be masking the problem with the XG ECU.

Also you said you had AU injectors, according to the calibrations there slightly smaller than E series injectors E series = 18.35 AU = 18.18

Add to that the VE table differences between the XG and EL could add up to a lean running engine, its all just guess work here though.

You could try hooking up your multimeter to your O2 sensor to confirm if its way to lean? under .45 volt would suggest its lean.

I would also try disconnecting other main sensors 1 by one, ECT, ACT and O2. When the ACT or ECT is disconnected the ECU will substitute a default value of 40c. Just see if it makes a improvement or not.
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:57 am 
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Last time I checked my o2 sensor it was bouncing from 0.7v-0.01v as it is meant to. So that seems normal.

I thought the AU injectors would richen up the idle even more because they have a 21lbs/hr flow rate as opposed to the ea-ed injectors which are 19lbs/hr. But you sound like you know more than me so your probably right!!! :D

I had this problem before with my old injectors as well. That's why I thought I would give the AU injectors a go with their "better" spray pattern.

I have pretty much replaced every sensor on this car trying to iron out the fuel running issues from day one. The only other thing I could possibly think it could be is FUEL PRESSURE. But if it was fuel pressure I would have symptoms all the time even when the car is warmed up and also with my XG ECU. I put the fuel pump in 3 months ago and got some submersible hose with clamps to connect it to the fuel line so i know that is definitely not leaking. I even checked it 2 weeks ago to make sure. I blew out my return line with my air compressor and also the fuel line when I put the BBM on so there is definitely no blockages either. I have tested the fuel pressure regulator the best I can by pulling off the vacuum hose and the idle does change so I am guessing it is working. No fuel is coming out of the top of the FPR either so AFAIK it isn't that.

So it looks like i am off to the only j3 chip dealer in adelaide to get my EL ECU mapped with the same fuel tables as what is on my XG ECU.

Quick question about that though. First of all on the j3 chip can you change the cold start (closed loop) fuel tables???? and would I be better to stick the chip in my auto ECU and try to sell the manual XR6 ECU?? OR should I make everyone cry and stick a j3 chip in my xr6 ecu? :wink:

I have read on here that with the chip it converts the Auto ECU into a manual one. Does this change all the dashpot levels aswell??? Would it really be exactly the same as a manual ECU??

Also I think this dealer hasn't got a dyno so I'm sort of wondering how he'll go at solving my issue and tuning the ECU. I could go to another tuner but they most likely would use a different chip and I have heard alot of good things about the j3 chip so i would like to stick with it. I'll give him a call on monday and have a chat....

I really appreciate everyone's help with this matter. You guys are legends.

Oh and I had already tried disconnecting the sensors and resetting the ECU and seeing if that fixed the problem and it still remained!!!

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:09 am 
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Saltez! wrote:
Also I think this dealer hasn't got a dyno

LMG Performance and Mike Dale Automotive both have a dyno mate.

Jason
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:29 am 
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And you can use your Auto ECU. It will behave exactly as a manual ecu with a manual calibration, you can remove all the resistors and such.
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:46 am 
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The only thing I haven't seen questioned is whether the timing for the EL ECU is being set properly.

As in waiting that couple of minutes for base idle/timing mode and adjusting it then. Or is it being reset like an ED/XG ECU. Obviously will make a big difference to the end results.

Just a check/thought.
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:57 am 
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Cheers Jason, that put my mind at ease about the dyno thing. I will definitely call him on monday morning and get this stuff storted out.

arm79 thanks for the reply. Yes i did adjust the timing when the EL ECU went in timing mode. This happens when all the fault codes have been displayed and you can notice the engine drops in revs and sounds different. So I have definitely done it right :D Thanks for the idea though.

I will chuck the EL Xr6 ecu up on here and ebay and see how it goes. So if anyone wants it. Send me a PM.

Cheers

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Just when you think you have figured what you need to do, something else happens!!

Yesterday as i mentioned above I threw in my 6DBB AUTO ECU with no resistors to see what was going to happen. Apart from idling at 1200RPM the car drove fine from cold start and had no hesitation at all...................

I wonder why it surged and bucked like crazy before when I had the resistors in there..... So now later on today I hope to chuck the resistors in and "hopefully" problem would be solved.

Running an AUTO ecu with no resistors in there wouldn't cause the ECU to richen up the fuel mixtures by any chance????? Do you think if i put the resistors in there my problem will come back???

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Saltez! wrote:
the rocker cover fits perfectly though and does not leak or anything so at least thats good.
So what was the head, 94AB or 91AA??
Saltez! wrote:
Do you think smart lock might have something to do with it???? If there was something wrong with the bypass module it would mean the car wouldn't start and just turn over, wouldn't it??
Smartlock is only an issue at startup - has no play during actual running.
Saltez! wrote:
arm79 thanks for the reply. Yes i did adjust the timing when the EL ECU went in timing mode. This happens when all the fault codes have been displayed and you can notice the engine drops in revs and sounds different. So I have definitely done it right
My only concern is the timing marks differ on the various timing covers, don't they??, so you need to make sure the timing is correct for the respective ECU you're running.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:49 pm 
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I let the car cool down a bit and took it for another drive. Still has the hesitation when cold but when running the EL Auto ECU. When its warm the hesitation is gone. What gear do you think the ECU thinks its in with no voltage going to the selector pin??

My head is 91AA

The timing marks I have got are 10 Degrees BTDC which says IGN and I have TDC which would be 0 degrees.

What type of symptoms would a crappy ECU earth cause?????? It's just a thought..

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:53 pm 
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the mark with tdc would be the 0 deg, the mark with ign is the 10 deg mark...
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:10 pm 
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Saltez! wrote:
I let the car cool down a bit and took it for another drive. Still has the hesitation when cold but when running the EL Auto ECU. When its warm the hesitation is gone. What gear do you think the ECU thinks its in with no voltage going to the selector pin??

My head is 91AA

The timing marks I have got are 10 Degrees BTDC which says IGN and I have TDC which would be 0 degrees.

What type of symptoms would a crappy ECU earth cause?????? It's just a thought..



The ECU will think its in 3rd without it being connect, that's the LHM gear.
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:17 pm 
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andrewt12 wrote:
The ECU will think its in 3rd without it being connect, that's the LHM gear.
AFAIK this doesn't affect the engine running itself, as LHM is trans related, provided you're running the auto ECU in a manual car.
There is LOS (Limited operating strategy) where there is something like a internal ECU fault - it's like an LHM for the engine - injectors run group fire, ign advance is zero, etc, engine runs crap, but still runs.
Saltez! wrote:
The timing marks I have got are 10 Degrees BTDC which says IGN and I have TDC which would be 0 degrees.
This interested me and I had a look at BenJ's engines today, and the EF/EL timing mark on the timing cover is vastly different. We did some rough measurements from common reference points (common mounting bolts), and the EF/EL casting is I guesstimate, around 15-18 degrees retarded from the EB/ED TDC mark. IIRC the EF/EL mark indicates 10 deg BTDC ??
We didn't take out the crank bolts to see where the keyways are, but I'm guessing the timing marks are in different locations on the respective harmonic balancers, so I guess once the timing is set, it's correct for both ECU's, hence why people haven't found any issues with the timing aspect.
I suppose when you do a serp belt conversion, the balancer timing mark may then be an issue, when you fit an EF/EL balancer ??
Be best to find Troyman's conversion thread, and have a read.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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