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Factory map sensor voltage range? 

 

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 Post subject: Factory map sensor voltage range?
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:44 pm 
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does anyone know what the voltage range of a factory ED MAP sensor is? im still having probs with my stupid car running rich/lean (it alternates between both) and think it may be a vac problem. i have one of the jaycar AFR meter kits that im going to modify to display Vacume from the map sensor but need to know what voltages it needs to see.

Thanks

 

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 Post subject: Re: Factory map sensor voltage range?
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:23 pm 
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JOSE wrote:
does anyone know what the voltage range of a factory ED MAP sensor is? im still having probs with my stupid car running rich/lean (it alternates between both) and think it may be a vac problem. i have one of the jaycar AFR meter kits that im going to modify to display Vacume from the map sensor but need to know what voltages it needs to see.

Thanks


You will have a tough time doing it since the map sensor outputs a frequency, not a voltage.

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:25 pm 
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ah f**k, that thought crossed my mind thismorning!

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:05 pm 
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Have you changed the oxy sensor at any stage?
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:09 pm 
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Hook up a mechanical vac gauge (tee off the MAP hose) and tell us what sort of readings you get from there....

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:36 pm 
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Want a different MAP sensor to try :D
I got parts galore!!

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:48 pm 
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yep, oxy sensor has been changed, went OK for a while then started acting s**t again, i guessed that it was just due to the new sensor reacting better to the change in AFR then cos my car is running rich as (it stinks) it slowly dies again.

I bought a mechanical gauge and hooked it up, idle vacume was 20inches - havnt been for a spin yet

Steady, i thought of finding a secondhand MAP sensor and hacking it up for the load cell, but im so over f**k around now im just throwing money at the car so it gets fixed quicker.

so far ive changed:

Plugs
Leads - now melted :)
Fuel filter
TPS
MAP
OXY
Coolant temp sensor
Got a new exhaust

and tried known good:
Injectors
Fuel reg
ECU
Fuel pump
Engine (joking on that one)

the only things that seemed to make a change was the OXY and the exhaust, but then it slowly gets worse again.

Dizzy and coil are next - adrian is in charge of that though.

Then to make my car atleast safe again i have to do rear susp bushes, front bushes, and get new tyres, The car is going to be bloody well new by the time im done - i dont even want to add up how much ive spent!

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:56 pm 
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I have a couple of map sensors floating around that you're welcome to try and see.

I don't see thermostat on your list there, has that been changed in the process at all? That may make a big difference and one thing I forgot to ask when we were doing the engine.

I havent gotten around to ordering that stuff yet. I will this week when I get 2 seconds to get on the phone.

P.S. I like the funny remarks :evil:
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:08 pm 
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MAP is brand new, tried it ages ago with no effect.

When i drive to work tommorow ill keep an eye on manifold pressure and see if vacume is OK, if it is the ONLY thing it (should be) are the dizzy and coil or GOD NO a wiring problem!

yeh, i have done the thermostat no change, and its opening up when it should.

ill describe what my AFR is up to, may help someone diagnose it.

warm up: full rich
closed loop: (fine) stays in the green zone and pulses up and down very fast sometimes it makes it to full rich or full lean
highway: below full lean
IDLE: (warmed up) hunts between rich and lean slowly (about half sec between each - no eefect on RPM
accelerating (low throttle under 2 grand) - hunts between full rich and full lean (1/2 sec interval) major differences in power really struggles
accelereating (full throtlle above 2grand) full rich no probs, seems a tiny bit lacking
manually holding a gear, low throttle above 2 grand:
AFR still hunts

the main problem is when below 2grand and low throttle while warmed up when i stop at lights or at home the car stinks (sulfer smell) and it realy chews the juice

one more thing i havnt tested is the fuel return line, im too scared to test it! - i dont want any melted wiring in my boot as well - ok i stop now :D

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:09 pm 
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oh, and dont sweat it on ordering the dizzy and other s**t,

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:20 pm 
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JOSE wrote:
one more thing i havnt tested is the fuel return line, im too scared to test it! - i dont want any melted wiring in my boot as well - ok i stop now :D


Have you done a fuel pressure test at all? Being an ED it would be bloody easy, and will highlight if there are any blockages in the system/return somewhere.

Vaccum may not tell you much, apart from the fact is getting lower as you accelerate. The question is how low should it go, and thats something I dont know if anyone can tell you.

If you truely want to measure the AFR's, you'd have to get a wideband O2 sensor and the appropriate reader and see what its doing as your driving. From memory general driving and cruising should be 12/13:1's, lean cruise will be around the 14.2/3:1, WOT will be in the 11/12:1 mark, idle should be at the 13 to 13.5:1 mark.
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:25 pm 
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nope, no fuel pressure test - i work almost the exact same hours as every mechanics in geelong and spend the weekends driving my girlfriend to shopping or work.
If im feeling brave i may test it over the weekend, I think the gregs manual has a section detailing how many Ml's should come back from the return every second - may need mum on standby with the extinguiser and hose.

with the severity of the loss/change in power i dont need to actually know the proper AFR or VAC, i will see it going up and down like a yoyo!

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:37 pm 
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If the vac is around 20inches at idle (less when cold starting, or when in gear at a standstill) and at 0inches at WOT then you should be playing in the right ball park.

21-19inches about right for most idle conditions.

Under engine braking, vac should be 20-25inches.

If it's too much fuel pressure (it's running rich, yes?) then there'll be a fault code logged in the ECU - "constant lean condition" (if its too rich, then EEC will attempt to lean fuel into correct spec, hence "constant lean condition" error despite the fact it's actually running rich... fuzzy ford logic).

Seems you dont mind throwing a bit of coin at the problem... a dyno run with AFRs might be $50 well spent?

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:44 pm 
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Ill try my luck with testing the return line on the weekend, then tee up a time to get the dizzy and coil replaced. then if it aint fixed ill, drop it off at a mechanics and give em a lis of what ive replaced/checked (that way they cant doo the good old we had to replace XXX components here is a $2000 bill) they can check the other s**t like fuel pressure and such

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:28 pm 
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arm79 wrote:
If you truely want to measure the AFR's, you'd have to get a wideband O2 sensor and the appropriate reader and see what its doing as your driving. From memory general driving and cruising should be 12/13:1's, lean cruise will be around the 14.2/3:1, WOT will be in the 11/12:1 mark, idle should be at the 13 to 13.5:1 mark.


As a rough guide you want 14.5-15.5 (stoich to slightly lean) at cruise, 14-14.7 (stoich to slightly rich) at idle, and 12-13 at WOT (rich)

Jose - when you say your car is alternating lean/rich how do you know this? If its because thats what a narrowband O2 sensor is telling you dont believe it - they are useless.

 

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