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Haltech VS Microtech 

 

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 Post subject: Haltech VS Microtech
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:07 pm 
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I want to use a fuel injection computer on my turbo LPG V8, it would be used primarily as an ignition controller, as obviously LPG delivery is manual, and secondly as a data logging system, I am looking at both the ecu's listed above but I have no idea when it comes to computer stuff, I want something that will allow real time tuning, and record heaps of data for me, like air temp, h2o temp, afr, tps, boost/vac, rpm, I want a full house data logging capability basically. Will most probably be using a distributor ign with single coil, but the option to run with coil packs would be nice, if space permits.

I see that the microtech can support a dash display unit, so I am leaning towards that one but I am not skilled enough to make the decision on my own.

Someone please school me.
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:34 pm 
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Hey Mate,

I'm looking for the same thing for my 347 EB Fairmont which will be straight gas.

I've decided to go down the path of the Megasquirt. Have a look at the thread in this forum to learn about it. i'll be using it JUST for igntion duties, as i'm in the same boat as you with ventruri controlled gas delivery :)

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:06 pm 
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cheers I go look now
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:48 pm 
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OMFG there is way too much info out there on that megasquirt stuff, you could read into it for years, jeebusss, sounds like a good solution but some issues above 20psi, overall a very versatile product, going to look into it when I have some time available.
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:12 pm 
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When are you looking to implement?

Hyena has been kind enough to lend a hand assmbling the components for me.. so I should have mine up and running and installed in the next couple of months. I can let you know how it works. I have no doubt even the Megasquirt will be overkill for this application, but it will be interesting to see how it compares to my Motec M800 which im runningn in the other car :) From one extreme (under $400) to the other (over $5000) :)


I'll just be driving the single Coil/Dizy TFI setup commonly found on EB-EL V8's and most of the 4L EFI engines. Pretty simple stuff.

Just by using RPM/MAP/TP you could get your ignition maps running perfectly, far better than relying on someont to re-graph a dizzy for you and relying on vac advance.. thats guesswork! :)

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:22 am 
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The car should be operational by the end of this year hopefully, looking at MS sites, theres a lot the units can do but still no real info on the datalogging capabilities of the system? the ignition control is fairly simple and could be done with a regular digital7 box from MSD, BUT I want the datalogging functions so I have to use an ecu of some sort.
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:27 am 
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Waggin wrote:
Just by using RPM/MAP/TP you could get your ignition maps running perfectly, far better than relying on someont to re-graph a dizzy for you and relying on vac advance.. thats guesswork! :)


Thats right but also need air temp included in that, very important variable.
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:39 pm 
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LTD351 wrote:
Waggin wrote:
Just by using RPM/MAP/TP you could get your ignition maps running perfectly, far better than relying on someont to re-graph a dizzy for you and relying on vac advance.. thats guesswork! :)


Thats right but also need air temp included in that, very important variable.


Sure.. air temp can be done.. however if you look back to pre-EFI, there was no such consideration taken for ignition timing :)

But perhaps I overlooked your requirement for data-logging. You'd be putting alot of good features to waste if you stepped up to full blown EFI ECU which does data logging, but I guess you've gotta do what you've gotta do :)

I can't argue either.. I've found data logging to be VERY valuable on the Motec!

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:42 pm 
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Well if you are willing to wait a while -perhaps another 2 months you could help me in the first trials of the Vehicle Datalogger/Display V2.0

A project I have been working on for 6 months now. A stand alone datalogger with built in display and cababilites of generating outputs. It's not designed to drive an injector or ignition system but it is able to switch on water injection, BBM manifolds, Boost control solenoids etc.

Current status of the project:
It's still in prototype form at the moment.
I have the version 1.2 system in my car for 4 months now - working great - it proves the concept but has limited functionality.
V2.0 Is a bundle of wires however the much much more advanced software is 85% complete.

Features already/expected to be implemented are:

2Analogue channels with 10bit accuracy over a voltage range from 0-5V
6Analogue channels with 10bit accuracy over a voltage range from 0-15V
2 Digital channels with 16bit resolution, able measure frequencies from 2Hz to 5000Hz
2 MOSFET 5Amp switch to ground outputs one PWM one switched
One general purpose alarm buzzer and one general purpose warning LED
Display screan 4x20 characters with backlight - full menu system.
Onboard datalogging able to record 8000 data points or 6.5 min at full rate logging (20Hz).
Also has streaming output through Serial or USB at 20Hz to laptop.

User has full control over input/ output functions:

Analogue channels can use one of 4 lookup tables to adjust the input.
Digital channels can measure: Pulsewidth high, Pulsewidth low, dutycycle, Frequency, RPM, Frequency MAP etc etc. They also have 2 dedicated lookup tables.
Digital outputs can use any digital or analgue input to control their function. Including lookup tables.

Note that I created this becasue I couldn't find ANYTHING else out there that did everything that this can do. The closest/cheapest thing I could find was a commercial datalogger but with no outputs and no screen for about $600. Many dataloggers go to $5000

I can't say how much it will be when it is finished but it will be under $500.

Just some ideas for future applications too:

Connect 2 axis acellerometer to measure acelleration 1/4 mile and cornering forces

Connect wide band A/F meter

Closed loop boost control

Whatever you can think of!

Additionally I will be selling the prototype V1.2 unit after I get V2.0. installed so you can have that at a very modest price (less than sum of parts). See galley for pics. V2.0 will be bigger due to the larger screen.

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:58 pm 
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Spork very interesting project there, I am very interested in the outcome.

This MegaSquirt does it handle sequential igntion firing at all, as in can I override the EEC-IV bank firing.

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:10 pm 
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Thanks, The original idea came to me when reading this forum - people just want to know what is going on with their cars

Anyway I think you mean injection firing. And no MS only has bank injection not sequential.
Although it can do ignition firing (with a software upgrade). All ignition setups are sequential or wasted spark.

And answering the original question. I would go with the haltech since it has internal logging and lots of spare analogue inputs that it can log also. But if you want an ECU for logging why not ditch the EEC and just run full aftermarket. Only the EMS8860 (and perhaps Autronic) can do 6cyl sequential for under $2000. -If you want a cheap autronic get the one that was in the forsale section yesterday. They are awsome units, up there with the Motec stuff.

But just for datalogging it depends how much $$$ you want to spend. Motec have the dash logger which is simply fantastic (I have used one) - You won't want more that that can do. But it costs $3500 Hmmmm!

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:10 pm 
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LTD, the megasquirt has a seperate program, although included with the Megatune software, for realtime datalogging.

Basically every input into the MS can be logged, and most outputs can also be logged as well. This can be played back in any speed you want, including realtime.

*MS advertising hat well and truly on now* there is also a funky bit of software called MSTweak3000 which takes the datalogs from the datalogging software and makes recommended changes to the maps (altho i think only fuel at the moment) making for closed loop tunes which are exactly what you want... of course open loop must be done the old fashioned way :)

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:20 pm 
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The only thing with cheaper ECU's like MS and the EMS Stinger is that you have to have the laptop plugged in when recording - its just streaming to the laptop.
So not too bad on the road but not so usefull for racing!
Believe me when testing full load/ full brake stuff you dont want your $3000 laptop flying into the dash! -This happened to me LOL! (no damage though!)

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:23 pm 
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Spork wrote:
The only thing with cheaper ECU's like MS and the EMS Stinger is that you have to have the laptop plugged in when recording - its just streaming to the laptop.
So not too bad on the road but not so usefull for racing!
Believe me when testing full load/ full brake stuff you dont want your $3000 laptop flying into the dash! -This happened to me LOL! (no damage though!)


Very, very good point!!

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:23 pm 
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OK so MS can datalog and control my ignition, but I need a laptop in the car-no problem for me.

I don't have the time or patientce to sit and build this thing myself so i will be purchasing an assembled unit with the bits needed suit my combo.

So far from looking around on the net I see that MS comes in three different versions although one isn't available yet, MS, MS2, and Ultramegasquirt, from what I have read the MS is fuel, the MS2 is fuel and ign, the UMS is fuel ign and supports sequential firring.

I am only going to use the unit to manage ign and also datalog evrything, I think I would need a MS2 with the MAP sensor upgraded to handle 20+ psi, other similar engine combo's like mine are using an MSD dizzy(TFI) I think??, and a 6al or similar box, they use the MS2 to map and control the curve and it receives its signal from the dizzy and then sends the coil signal thru the MSD box and onto the coil, my guess is that the MSD box is used to give a stronger spark but i am not sure? would I need to use a ign box????

SPORK- sounds like a very usefull system you are designing there, need a test pilot?
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