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Is a twin CPI setup possible? 

 

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 Post subject: Is a twin CPI setup possible?
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:32 pm 
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A bit bizzare i know but what would be needed to run two CPI setups, with one per 3 cylinders on a custom intake?

Just an idea at the moment but i like to be different.

This would be in a worked xf falcon with either a crossflow 4.1 or EA OHC (due to price).

200kw would be sufficent and the injectors would proberly be oversized if left stock.

Anyone have any idea of their size as one is big a small like a progressive carb right?

Thanks,
Pete
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:04 pm 
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You can always go a Megasquirt. Probably the best way to go if you're on a budget.

Even if you had more money, no use going for something more sophisticated like Wolf or Motec as each is going to give you exactally the same performance compared to the Megasquirt since you're dealing with a TBI system.
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:16 pm 
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unclewoja wrote:
You can always go a Megasquirt. Probably the best way to go if you're on a budget.

Even if you had more money, no use going for something more sophisticated like Wolf or Motec as each is going to give you exactally the same performance compared to the Megasquirt since you're dealing with a TBI system.



HAHAHAHA you crack me up LOL LOL

comparing a megasquirt to a motec.. LOL

are you for real. :roll:


but back on to the topic. yeah there is no reason it can't be done. you'd just have to make a manifold to siut it. any form of aftermarket managment will do fine although some are better then others. and to a degree you would get very similar peak power. But alot of the cheaper ones don't run so smoothly when cruising and idling. not to mention limmited support by tunners. My advice find the guy you want to tune it and use the one he likes. Because it mean he has used them many times befor and know how to get them setup properly and quikly. mean less $$$ spent by you

By the time you set it all up it would be far cheaper to use one of factory manifolds and TBs

 

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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:26 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
unclewoja wrote:
You can always go a Megasquirt. Probably the best way to go if you're on a budget.

Even if you had more money, no use going for something more sophisticated like Wolf or Motec as each is going to give you exactally the same performance compared to the Megasquirt since you're dealing with a TBI system.



HAHAHAHA you crack me up LOL LOL

comparing a megasquirt to a motec.. LOL

are you for real. :roll:


Yeah, and according to some people, a Motec is a piece of s**t compared to an EEC-V. So each to their own.

The main feature that a Motec has over a megasquirt is sequential injection. But since this topic is about TBI, it doesn't seem to really matter, hence, yes, a megasquirt is equally as good as a motec in this situation.
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:11 am 
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on paper it may have similar input out puts and map sizes.
but it comes down to hardwhare itself.

you talk up the little bits of s**t all you like but thats all they'll every be.

if they were any good 9 out of 10 people would be using them. car makers would use them. but the truth is they are not tha good. and for the people that can't put them together they are not any cheaper then most of common ECUs.

MS uses a 16bit 8mhz processor
motec uses a 32bit 33mhz processor and reads all inputs 2400 time a second and calculates the requirement of the engine 200 times a second.

injection is acurate to 0.00001 seconds again MS fails to provide this info :roll:

spark is to 0.25 degrees. and you guessed it no info on the MS site :roll:
all of these thing contribute to how well your car will run
one thing that MS does metion alot is price. But you get what you pay for.
out of date, slow, inacturate...
are we starting to see a patern


the megasquirt website fails to provide this info about the MS. HHMMMM i wonder why they would do that. :roll:


Ford EEC computer was developed when for was in F1 with Benneton
from 1987 to 1995. and has constanly been updated.

any wonder i think it's better then a motec.

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:24 pm 
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EEC-IV runs at 15mhz, EEC-V runs at 24Mhz. Megasquirt 2 runs at 24Mhz.

I'm not sure how often you tune your spark curves down to .25. I can tell you most of my changes are +/- a few degrees at a time.

MoTeC and Megasquirt have their places in the market. Chances are both will provide adequate ability to acheive same peak power, close to the same drivability.

This comes from someone who owns a MoTeC M800 and also a Megaaquirt :) Don't get too hung up on stats, specs and chit chat - buy, try and then tell us what you think.

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:35 pm 
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Nice Waggin! :D

Also just a note: with the Megasquirt II (which i own) you can adjust your ignition timing in 10th's of a degree, that is 0.1 of a degree.
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:38 pm 
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yeah somebody on here had it done. Two throttle bodies ona custom manifold they made. i have got pics on my home computer (at uni) and will post them up later.
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:45 pm 
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One thing i'd also like to add.. Having all that speed and accuracy doesn't really matter unless we're revving really hard. And we all know our straight 6's / v8's dont rev that well ;)
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:01 pm 
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I'd also like to add this.

The UltraMegaSquirt runs at a whopping.... wait for it.... 100Mhz. It also has it's own dedicated timing controller to offload timing controlls from the CPU and give it more time to do ther stuff. Far more powerful that a Motec running @ 33mhz at the moment.

Also, a standard air temp sensor is only capable or changing its reading by 1 degree about every 1/3 of a second. So if you sample @ 3 times a sec, or if you sample @ 30,000 times a second, or anything in between, you'll get exactally the same accuracy.

I didn't know the MS-II had timing accuract down to 0.1 degrees. The "F1 bred" EEC-V is looking more shabby with each new generation of the Megasquirt.

But back to the topic at hand. The Megasquirt is by far the best option for what you want to do fordmuscle83.

If you're not controlling timing with an ECU, then it doesn't matter what accuracy the Megasquirt, or any other ECU has. You don't need the sequential injection feature of the Motec since you're not wanting a multi-point injection system, and if you want to go the option of wideband oxygen sensor, it's a far, far cheaper option with the megasquirt than with something like a motec.
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:02 pm 
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Just while we are on the subject the latest Bosch OEM ECU's are now working on an entirely different concept.

It's called "torque demand" Basically the ecu takes the drivers throttle request and converts it to a desired torque. Then the ecu decides how to achive that torque. For example it might keep the throttle angle the same and adjust the timing a little or raise the boost pressure or inject a bit more fuel.

Really amazing stuff. Kinda like an active system instead of a reactive system.

However since it knows the torque the engine is producing it makes it very easy for manufactures to let the ecu re-tune itself if the engine starts making more torque. -Remember the Gen III power thing? I think BA's can do this too but the CAPA flashtuner can remove it.

Anyway it's the way of the future.

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:51 pm 
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Thanks for the info Spork - very fancy!! :D

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:19 pm 
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unclewoja wrote:
I'd also like to add this.



I didn't know the MS-II had timing accuract down to 0.1 degrees. The "F1 bred" EEC-V is looking more shabby with each new generation of the Megasquirt.

.


when a mega squirt can do all of this http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopi ... 4&start=20

i'd almost think about using one. but of a*** by the time that happens ford factory ECU wil bel that far advance the ms would still look like toy for people with to much time on there hands.



Waggin i work on enough cars every day that are fitted with all sorts of aftermaket ECUs. and there is only one i have seen that has run the car to a satifactory level. that was an APEXI fitted to an
R33 GTR skyline. and also an APEXI fitted to 180sx.
both cars started and ran like a factory tunned car. they are both faultless runners. There is one reason why. the APEXI is a moddified factory nissan ECU.

I'm yet to see any aftermarket ECU accept the APEXI run a car with out fault.

and then a MS has one big fault ontop of it all. to get it at a good price you have to put it together your self. You then run into all sorts problems that could arise from poor assembly. or you could have some one put it together for you. but by the time you do that you could have bought a dealer pack wolf 3D V4 for the same price.


unclewoja:
You send me PMs to tell me to take it some where els.
Yet you are the one who started this whole s**t fight. in my first post i in no way at all said any thing bad about the MS. I was infact having a go directly at you for trying to compare the two.
You can't the MS can't do half the things even the cheapest motec can do.

you seem to be of the opinion i think that fordmuscle83 would be better off with a motec. again you are wrong, I have never said that. personly i think if he is considering doing some thing like, i would try and talk him into using and multi point setup in the first place. wich i said in my first post.

my advice on the ecu still seems to best advice in this thread as well.
Don't use some thing your tunner is unformiliar with as you'll only and up with a bad result. Go and ask the tunner what he likes to use and use it, that you are garrentied he will know how to tune right.

and that my friend is why he should not use a megasquirt.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:06 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
Don't use some thing your tunner is unformiliar with as you'll only and up with a bad result. Go and ask the tunner what he likes to use and use it, that you are garrentied he will know how to tune right.

and that my friend is why he should not use a megasquirt.


Good point - however you seem to be overlooking the fact that this is why the megasquirt was born - for hobbyists!! People who want to tune in their own backyard. Its not for retail (yet), its not for million dollar race teams and its not for people who aren't open minded.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:47 pm 
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Wow, why is it that megasquirts cause such s**t fights lol.

As for my opinion, go MPFI, CFI shouldn't have been invented. And its wasier than manufacturing manifolds and the like...


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