Fordmods Logo

LPG Conversion: air fuel mix or direct injection? 

 

Page 1 of 2 [ 26 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next

 
 Post subject: LPG Conversion: air fuel mix or direct injection?
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:22 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline

Age: 30

Posts: 111

Joined: 5th Jan 2006

Ride: TD Cortina

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Ok so having come from my magna to a BA I've noticed a slight difference in fuel consumption... being the lead foot I am.

Therefor yesterday I went down to one of the places my work supplies LPG tanks for and asked them how much.

-----------------

"Normal system or direct injection system?"

"Uhh... what's the difference?"

"With the direct injection system you'll get better power and economy than the normal sytem, in fact our latest figures are hinting at better economy and power than normal fuel"

"Riiiight... price?"

"2100 for the regular system if you're supplying the tank or 2900 for the injection system if you're supplying the tank."

---------------------

Now to me this seems FAR to good to be true, though I'm inclined to believe the guy, either A: he's a good salesman, B: he's telling the truth or C: he's a smacktard.

now I've never even heard of this EFI for gas but I mean... I'm not exactly your everyday mechanic either.

Any comments?

 

_________________

CORTINA POWER!
1975 Ford TD Cortina. Fear the flames.
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:42 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 2449

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: Falcon EB-s

Location: Manjimup
WA, Australia

Id go for the injection system. It replaces your standard injectors with ones designed for gas. Sort of like comparing the CFI and MPFI on the EA and EB falcons.

 

_________________

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:46 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 988

Joined: 4th Dec 2004

Ride: el faimont, dual fuel

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

what injection system??

what he has said is true, injection delivers more power and better economy than carby setups, and you can still use your traction control.

will they give any warranty, you loose the ford engine warranty with gas install.

 

_________________

why do u write in here.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:56 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline

Age: 30

Posts: 111

Joined: 5th Jan 2006

Ride: TD Cortina

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

no, I don't loose my ford warranty and their warranty covers faults related to the LPG system.

so the injectors get replaced? Will that then effect it's fuel performance as well?

The way he explained it is that it gets to optimum performance temp and then switches to gas. if so my fuel performance won't matter to much then.

I'm so confused :P


msman what he was saying was that I would get better fuel economy and power than my existing system.

 

_________________

CORTINA POWER!
1975 Ford TD Cortina. Fear the flames.
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:20 pm 
Technical Contributor
Offline
User avatar

Age: 32

Posts: 2517

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: LS3 VF

Location: Bunbury
WA, Australia

gas injection is single fuel only
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:31 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline

Age: 30

Posts: 111

Joined: 5th Jan 2006

Ride: TD Cortina

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

he didn't seem to think so.

I quote:

"You'll run on petrol untill the car reaches optimum run temp and then it'll switch over, you'll never have to do a thing."

 

_________________

CORTINA POWER!
1975 Ford TD Cortina. Fear the flames.
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:44 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline
User avatar

Age: 40

Posts: 243

Joined: 9th Nov 2004

Gallery: 3 images

Location: Bayswater
VIC, Australia

Speak to Boemo Engineering in Bayswater. They have a duel type gas injection that is giving good performance and econemy results.

 

_________________

Pround memeber Team DYNAMIC WHITE

"NFURI8" Fairlane ghia nf2 v8.
Pacemaker p4000
El gt snorkle, K&N filter.
JVC and INFINITY audio system.
EL GT Shadow Chrome alloys


AU3 Falcon Dedicated Gas

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:41 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 988

Joined: 4th Dec 2004

Ride: el faimont, dual fuel

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

not all gas injection is single fuel only, for example the parnell system, sequential vapour injection, is dual fuel.

you can theoretically get better power on gas than petrol but the entire engine has to be setup for gas, it is currently setup for petrol, like the ignition. i'm guessing the better economy part is in terms of money.

remember that gas injection has a limit of 200fwkw.
if you do not intend to go over this limit i would go for it over a carby gas system any day of the week.

remember that

 

_________________

why do u write in here.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:50 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline

Age: 30

Posts: 111

Joined: 5th Jan 2006

Ride: TD Cortina

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

yeah I'm going to AUZGAS in bayswater. I'll drop in there as well, thanks Neal and everyone else for the info

 

_________________

CORTINA POWER!
1975 Ford TD Cortina. Fear the flames.
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:30 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline

Age: 30

Posts: 111

Joined: 5th Jan 2006

Ride: TD Cortina

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Ok. it's pretty simple how they do it.

Ya take a nice big drill and take to the cylinder.

lol. Nah they have another set of injectors that run in each cylinder. Just for those of you who where as stumped as I.

Dave.

 

_________________

CORTINA POWER!
1975 Ford TD Cortina. Fear the flames.
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 2449

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: Falcon EB-s

Location: Manjimup
WA, Australia

That run in each intake runner of the manifold i assume?

 

_________________

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:50 am 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

You guys might be interested in this.....
http://www.prins-lpg.com/en/products/vs ... index.html

It's vapour phase and it seems it's capable of big power.
I have an article in the latest 5.0 Mustang magazine about a Procharged 4.6 stang running dual fuel with this setup. It is using eight 93cc gas injectors.

Pete.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:06 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 35

Posts: 533

Joined: 12th Jan 2005

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

LPG can't produce more power than petrol. It is physically impossible.

A well tuned LPG system can edge out a stock petrol tune marginally.... but throw $3000 at the petrol system in the form of an aftermarket programmable ECU and a good dyno tune and any LPG system will be wondering what the hell happened. Also, an aftermarke ECU using a wideband oxy sensor will give you great economy on petrol.

NOTHING you do with an LPG system can account for the fact that LPG has approx 10% less energy per litre compared to petrol. It's like saying you'll cover 1000km faster @ 100km/h compared to 110km/h. Sure you could make physical modifications to the engine to get back the power, i.e extractors, but those modifications will also benefit petrol aswell by the same margin, so petrol will always stay ahead.

That said, LPG is still very good. I run it on my car for the price per km. Disgraceful low down torque and top end power, but it is a 10 year old system. Just don't expect to jump in your car and shave 1 sec off your 1/4 mile time.

One other thing also confuzzles me about petrol start LPG systems. LPG is a every clean fuel and it's cold start requirements are different to petrol. My car runs flawlessly on LPG from cold. It's got a petrol start device on it, but that only works for 2.0 seconds from ignition on. One huge benefit of LPG is because it burns much cleaner @ temp, and much much much cleaner when cold compared to petrol. I can't understand why people would want to run the petrol when it's dirtying the engine the most when you car run a clean fuel from cold.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:17 am 
Smokin em up
Offline

Posts: 280

Joined: 30th Mar 2005

Gallery: 2 images

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Unclewoja, you should not be so insistent that lpg will always be inferior to petrol just because it has less energy per litre than petrol.
You are neglecting the fact that lpg has a higher octane rating.

As better lpg systems are developed, they will be better able to take advantage of lpg in much the same way that electronic injection was better able to take advantage of petrol.
With better lpg systems being developed and engines designed to suit, it with it bring large gains to the lpg buying public and the performance enthusiasts at large.

In any case, most lpg systems are installed for a reduction in running costs, which the fuel is rather good at achieving, rather than for any power increase.

lpg injection (wheather liquid or sequention vapour) is not the end of development but only the beginning.
As development progresses, you may yet eat your words as lpg may end up knocking off petrol as a power fuel.
Its just an issue of development time, money and industry desire and anything can be achieved - afterall humans did walk on the moon :)

For now though, stock standard injected petrol versus injected lpg on a stock petrol engine and the winner is injected lpg :D

Go down the mod path and petrol will win easily as there are many many more years of petrol power development to draw upon.
It will be some years away before the real benefit of lpg can be seen in the performance world.

As for lpg start issues, coolant is used to stabilized the converter tempertaure to avoid freezups when starting from cold on a cold day and driving off with a heavy foot, hence many designs will run on petrol until the coolant is warm enough.
Cleanliness is sacraficed for reliability for this short time :)

Till the day of performace lpg, enjoy your 10 yo lpg car and the savings it gives you

Cheers, Itchione
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:19 am 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 148

Joined: 17th Apr 2005

Ride: EF2 Futura

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Hey guys, every person has a different opinion on lpg. My old man works for Boemo engineering (Bayswater is the only for holding stock, abbotsford is ford installations) you wouldnt go fitting aspirated into a ba as they had trouble doing this in the first place. The cars back fired etc* the gas injection systems are great, expensive but great. I was just speaking to him today about him fixing my car (doesnt have much time :( ) but we came across this into conversation. they have only been fitting injection in the ba for just over 12 months now and the car has over 300,000 k's on it and been running on gas since new. Who ever you get to fit your system, dont go aspirated it will cause you alot of problems in the end. If you are interested in speaking in more detail abouts this call Boemo abbotsford and speak speak to paul or david im sure they will explain it to you. Just thought id add that in (y) good luck with what ever you decide.

 

_________________

EF Fairmont - King Spring Lows, Monroe GT shocks, Avanti 17" Racing wheels, Sony CDX-GT500 HU, Kicker 6.2 splits, 2x 12inch Kickers, Powered by sweet gas injection!
Wrecking EF2 Futura

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:54 pm All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names