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 Post subject: yes there are some shonky fuels out there
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:11 pm 
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4.9 EF Futura wrote:
Nigel wrote:
LPG has a higher octane rating than petrol, this is true.


Consistency is another issue. Now, im not a user of LPG but associates of mine who have tinkered with turbo LPG setups claim it is difficult to get a good tune as the octane of LPG changes with the ratio of propane/butane (which has no mandated mix and varies servo to servo/day to day).

So you either have a tune that's safe for all types of LPG, have an agressive tune for some LPG which puts your engine at risk in the event of lower octane

If you could find a servo that pumped consistent mixes of LPG day in/day out - you'd be lauging.



hi

good point LPgas and petrol boswer fuels fluctates all over the place

yes the propane and butane mixs will influence the octane rating

yes there are some shonky fuels out there :x :idea:

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:45 am 
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Well, someone else has lpg injection as well! Got a pic?

Mine is here... http://users.tpg.com.au/adslqp7v/ford/lpginjectors.jpg

I have the lpg injection in my EB, and i've only got 2RWKW less power and the same torque, and it's not even a great tune. I'm buring a bit of oil atm, and have a vacume leak to boot. I think the valve stem seals are gone... I have 242k kms on the car atm.

Anyway, Parnell LPG INJECTION system. Drives like the car is on petrol, can't really tell it's running on lpg, compared to other lpg systems usually fitted to late model falcon's. It 's great unless the coolant temp is too cold, then it coughs and f@rt a bit, but never backfires thru the intake.....

I'm building a turbo setup into my torana atm, using a Gas Research carby to feed it. I also have an lpg system to fit to my pano when i get it running, a sprint mixer to keep it dual fuel. I'm a big fan of LPG! :D

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:20 am 
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I dont have any pics here : but my System is the GTI one (www.gas-injection.com) which noone can get yet!.

How does the parnel system work around cold-starts? - My ECU is fooled into thinking its running mid-warm at startup so the coughs and f@rt dont last very long at all. on a Summer Morning I can get in and Drive hard, on a winter one I can get in and drive, and about 60 seconds later its all good.

Nigel
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:03 pm 
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Nigel wrote:
I dont have any pics here : but my System is the GTI one (www.gas-injection.com) which noone can get yet!.

How does the parnel system work around cold-starts? - My ECU is fooled into thinking its running mid-warm at startup so the coughs and f@rt dont last very long at all. on a Summer Morning I can get in and Drive hard, on a winter one I can get in and drive, and about 60 seconds later its all good.

Nigel


Starts on petrol, then changes over to LPG when the coolant temp is high enough, or the rev's get up high enough. Mine isn't setup quite right yet in that dept. When it's really cold, it will change to LPG, then when you come to a cornor, you stop, then put the foot down and it almost stalls. Fine when it's hot tho...

The GTI system, nice! I seen something similar in dev stage a few yrs ago on a holden V8 5ltr, but they were having trouble when using a common fuel rail. I take it the GTI system uses seperate rails?

The Parnell system, i had installed almost 1 yr ago now, and they only put the info on their website about 2 mths ago, if that. They were still doing dev work on it in the AU's & BA's, and had never stuck it near an older falcon, such as my EB, so it was a bit of a trial. After a chance meet with John Parnell, managing director and company founder, i got talking to him about fitting LPG to my EB, and he advised me about the current vapor offerings. I said i know and have seen LPG Injection tech working, does parnell have an offering? John replied with yes, but it's not quite ready for the market atm. I asked how much, as was replied with $3146 inc. I don't think John took me too seroiusly at that moment, as it's twice the cost of a normal install. When i rocked up 30mins later, fist full of 100's, they booked me in for the install. :lol:

A few wiring mods and it works pretty good. It run's a piggy back ECU, and has an injector simulator to fool the EEC into thinking it's running on petrol. It then uses the sensors to calc the lpg needed and fires the lpg injectors. It's a PoliAuto setup, hardware wise anyway, out of Italy.

http://www.parnell.com.au/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=26
It's now a commercial product, and anyone can get it installed.

It raises eyebrows and people say WTF when i pop the hood and they see it. I've even had dumb cops start telling me they are going to write me a ticket for having a nitros setup, untill they read the compliance plate and look at the tank in the boot, lol...

There is only one problem with it. ATM, it can support upto 200kw, iirc @ the flywheel. You can buy larger injectors and reg's, but you can't get a rising rate reg, so no forced induction yet. Else i would have built a LPG Injection system for my turbo torana and run it on a MS ecu. :D

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:05 pm 
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Meh!.

My System is straight LPG - Uses the original Fuel rail even. Runs off the Factory EEC-IV.

Cold Starts are actually ok - I had a problem with the water delivery to the reg. Starts on LPG and runs. I dont like systems that run Petrol start (LPG Should be able to start fine..).. and apparently some systems switch back to petrol if the converter starts freezing... ouchy!.

Ive been running this for 5 years now. Yeah - Ive had some problems, but 99% of the time its been awesome, and the support is good.

Nigel
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:29 pm 
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Nigel wrote:
Meh!.

My System is straight LPG - Uses the original Fuel rail even. Runs off the Factory EEC-IV.

Cold Starts are actually ok - I had a problem with the water delivery to the reg. Starts on LPG and runs. I dont like systems that run Petrol start (LPG Should be able to start fine..).. and apparently some systems switch back to petrol if the converter starts freezing... ouchy!.

Ive been running this for 5 years now. Yeah - Ive had some problems, but 99% of the time its been awesome, and the support is good.

Nigel


5 years, wow!

Straight lpg would be nice, but at the time i couldn't find a system that ran straight lpg. Besides, it's nice having 2 fuel tanks, double range if needed.

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:21 am 
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Ive tried the system out for range now a couple of times.

Best was 690km on a tank.... Was running real crap when I got to the gas station (long story : Driving to nth Qld made uneducated guess that next town would have LPG..... had trip computer on 0km for at least 40km).

Average is about 650km highway, much, much worse around town (300-350) due to way excessive use of right foot.
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:49 am 
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Nigel wrote:
Ive tried the system out for range now a couple of times.

Best was 690km on a tank.... Was running real crap when I got to the gas station (long story : Driving to nth Qld made uneducated guess that next town would have LPG..... had trip computer on 0km for at least 40km).

Average is about 650km highway, much, much worse around town (300-350) due to way excessive use of right foot.


I can get 500 on the highway on lpg, but i always carry atleast 1/2 a tank of petrol for long trips, i've had the occasion where i couldn't get lpg, and it's a scare when you don't have any petrol in the tank. ( Love my Torana, lol, but couldn't ever afford to keep petrol in the tank, too thirsty and it evaporated... )

I get similar round town milage, 300 - 440 depending on use of cruise and right foot. I live roughly 60kms from work, so there is about 35kms fwy driving on cruise, but sometimes it's in peak, so gas brake honk, gas brake honk, lol... I can't complain about my milage, esp since my engine isn't in it's prime. It does run crappy when you get to less than 4ltrs in the tank tho..... Not enough pressure to pust the gas to the reg properly i reckon.

I wonder how many other fordmod's ppl are running LPG Injection? Couldn't be just us could it?

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:00 pm 
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Actually it could be just us 2. LPG Injection is a whole lot scary for most ppl
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:09 pm 
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Nigel wrote:
Actually it could be just us 2. LPG Injection is a whole lot scary for most ppl


Really? I would have thougth there would be an few more ppl out there. It's been a commercial product from Parnell for a few mths now, and there has to be atleast one other commercial offering somewhere else in Aus.

There is no way i would put a traditional vapour system on a EFI car, i would give a gas research system a thought tho....

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:34 am 
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Had GasResearch on mine before GTI. Didnt like it at all.

Seriously : There is a horrible transition from Idle when your at a different atmospheric pressure than its set up for. Yeah its got the CTI, but it just doesnt handle it that well. I also had a 5.8 with Twin GRA Throttlebodies on it before the EB, and same horrible crap.

Impco gear was smoother in operation at least.

and nothing compares to GTI
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Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:42 am 
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Last edited by blackjack_original on Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:11 am 
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How does the parnell system go at full noise? - I heard a rumour that the "converter" started to ice up?

The thing I *love* about the GTI System is that it starts, and runs on LPG. No having to worry about the petrol system. Im toying (still) with the idea of getting one of the BA Falcon under-floor sedan tanks and throwing it in the EB. So its still straight gas, but I get my boot back.
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:39 am 
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Nigel wrote:
How does the parnell system go at full noise? - I heard a rumour that the "converter" started to ice up?

The thing I *love* about the GTI System is that it starts, and runs on LPG. No having to worry about the petrol system. Im toying (still) with the idea of getting one of the BA Falcon under-floor sedan tanks and throwing it in the EB. So its still straight gas, but I get my boot back.


I've not had a problem with the converter freezing up.

At full noise, when it's warmed up, it's nice, very responsive to your right foot, and flies thru the rev range, better than any normal lpg setup, even the tickford setups i've driven in EA-EL falcons. Power is so close to petrol power, only 2kw less. In my car, mind you, i have a vacume leak, and i think i've worked it out finally. Looking at some engine bay pics before and after the conversion, it looks like they didn't change my inlet manifold gaskit, and the manifold has to come off to be drilled for the injector bosses. :evil:

With a few tweaks and no vacume leak, i'm sure my engine would be even more responsive and much more fun than it is now.

I've heard reports on AU & BA's that it's more powerfull on lpg.

Overall, compared to a normal mixer setup, or a GRA setup, i can't complain at all. I reckon it was worth the $3146 to have it installed. I give dunnydoors and even the odd SS dunnydoor a damn good run for the $$, and even beat a few of them. :D Did i mention i've wound it off the dial on lpg, and got there about as quickly as on petrol? :twisted:

The savings on fuel, or the so close to petrol economy it's not funny. I avg 14/100 on petrol and 15/100 on lpg, with a reasonably heavy right boot. Better than mixer setup's that i've seen or read about. My mum's ED uses about 18-20 to the 100 on avg being driven similar to my EB, the ED has a tickford lpg setup on it.

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:09 am 
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I NEED TO GET LPG INJECTION!!!!

This all sounds so great. ive currently got what most ppl have for an lpg system but yeah 2kw power loss as oppoised to 10 or 15kw is awesome

Once i rebuild my engine its on to this!!
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