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MegaSquirt time! 

 

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:04 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Location: Perth
WA, Australia

thanks for the offer on the lower housing, i'm going to look into tapping the thread into the existing one, hopefully i can do that without taking it off the engine but we'll see i don't want to get swarf in my coolant system so maybe i'll pull it out, and if i pull it out i'll just get an ea/eb one from a wreker lol. theres no point grabbing it if your in SA its a bit of a drive lol, maybe when i'm tuning the MSII but then i wouldn't need it then. i can't wait till my next wrekker trip lol, i wanna get hold of the tickford plastics to shroud the engine and the XR8 intake snorkle and maybe a spoiler. its no suprise i never have money for all that long, i wish i had a spare few hundred dollars for a broadband O2 sensor

 

_________________

PH 4480 racing extractors
lukey 2.5" sports exhaust
Chopper 19"x245 mags
pioneer deck, 6"x1.5" Splits (F) and 6" 3-way speakers (R)
Precision response 4x 100w amp and 1000w mono 10" sub
Got so much more to go!
tint, breaks and spoiler next!

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:17 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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hay i took control of fuel the other yesterday (worked straight away), i was trying to tune the fuel map, although the signal from my hego sensor goes from say 0.75V then drop to 0.05V then jump back up again. Is that just characteristic of a narrow band sensor, or is there a loose wire somewhere? i noticed it jumping around all over the place when it was connected to the stock ecu, but i figured that was due to s**t closed loop tuning.

 

_________________

PH 4480 racing extractors
lukey 2.5" sports exhaust
Chopper 19"x245 mags
pioneer deck, 6"x1.5" Splits (F) and 6" 3-way speakers (R)
Precision response 4x 100w amp and 1000w mono 10" sub
Got so much more to go!
tint, breaks and spoiler next!

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: 66 Coupe

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

a narrowband sensor is only good for indicating the stoic point, as you have noticed the voltage changes rapidly either side of stoic.
Your best off using a wideband o2 to get an indication of the a/f ratios.
Also a new version of tunerstudio was released with a beta ve analyser live function
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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:51 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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it jumps even when i havent made any changes and its rich, could it be due to the stock ecu adjusting the spark timing?

like the revs n baro is constant, the injection duty cycle is constant, one second its .75 then occassionally drops to nothing at all (~0.05v).

i will get a broadband when i got a spare $200, would make tuning alot easier!

is there a widely available car that has the broadband element and element controller, that i could find in a wrecker or something? so far DIYautotune looks like my best option when it comes to finding a broadband controller and element

 

_________________

PH 4480 racing extractors
lukey 2.5" sports exhaust
Chopper 19"x245 mags
pioneer deck, 6"x1.5" Splits (F) and 6" 3-way speakers (R)
Precision response 4x 100w amp and 1000w mono 10" sub
Got so much more to go!
tint, breaks and spoiler next!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:04 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 38

Posts: 1320

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: 66 Coupe

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

it could be a bad sensor, or the sensor could be fouled from being too rich,
Also if its too rich, the sensor will show as lean, due to the unburnt fuel. try leaning it out a bit and see what happens.
best using an LC-1 or , doubt you will find anything at wreckers
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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:28 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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f**k it, i'll just buy one on credit card. i'll worry about it later, good thing the aus dollar is strong against the US atm

 

_________________

PH 4480 racing extractors
lukey 2.5" sports exhaust
Chopper 19"x245 mags
pioneer deck, 6"x1.5" Splits (F) and 6" 3-way speakers (R)
Precision response 4x 100w amp and 1000w mono 10" sub
Got so much more to go!
tint, breaks and spoiler next!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:58 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Posts: 319

Joined: 23rd Jan 2005

Ride: AU I forte

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

did it, ended up costing AUS$290, which isn't bad, i should get it in the next three days

 

_________________

PH 4480 racing extractors
lukey 2.5" sports exhaust
Chopper 19"x245 mags
pioneer deck, 6"x1.5" Splits (F) and 6" 3-way speakers (R)
Precision response 4x 100w amp and 1000w mono 10" sub
Got so much more to go!
tint, breaks and spoiler next!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:36 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Joined: 23rd Jan 2005

Ride: AU I forte

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

4LEDboy wrote:
God its about time I updated my progress :lol: (or lack of it)

Got a nice soldering station for christmas, none of the plug in jobbies I had would of been sutable for this job :roll:
What size solder are you guys using though? and temp do your run the soldering iron at?

I plan to have the car running on the MS by april, I want to have completly backwards compatabe though so if I have to go back to the EEC I can without fuss, I'll leave the dissy in to plug the hole until I know I have it down pat then I'll put the AU item in.

Love reading the posts in this thread, very informative. :)


i'd love a temp controlled station but never had one lol, i think when i put my board together i was using a 20watt soldering iron, now i got 20W with a 130W "boost" button, which is great as when its heating up it'll run at 40W.

most of the components on the board are fairly robust so i don't think you have to worry about cooking them. I cant give you an exact temp tho lol, i guess if your station is 0-100W or something then (provided the control knob is linear) maybe only turn it one fifth the way around or whatever, since 20W does me absolutly fine.

You don't want to get "cold" joins, so provided your not going to cook anything hotter is better in my opinion

 

_________________

PH 4480 racing extractors
lukey 2.5" sports exhaust
Chopper 19"x245 mags
pioneer deck, 6"x1.5" Splits (F) and 6" 3-way speakers (R)
Precision response 4x 100w amp and 1000w mono 10" sub
Got so much more to go!
tint, breaks and spoiler next!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:38 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Posts: 319

Joined: 23rd Jan 2005

Ride: AU I forte

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

66 coupe wrote:
a narrowband sensor is only good for indicating the stoic point, as you have noticed the voltage changes rapidly either side of stoic.
Your best off using a wideband o2 to get an indication of the a/f ratios.
Also a new version of tunerstudio was released with a beta ve analyser live function

is tunerstudio okay to use on MSe?


--- sorry to answer my question, yes it is lol. should look before asking

thanks

 

_________________

PH 4480 racing extractors
lukey 2.5" sports exhaust
Chopper 19"x245 mags
pioneer deck, 6"x1.5" Splits (F) and 6" 3-way speakers (R)
Precision response 4x 100w amp and 1000w mono 10" sub
Got so much more to go!
tint, breaks and spoiler next!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:46 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Posts: 319

Joined: 23rd Jan 2005

Ride: AU I forte

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

66 coupe wrote:
you can piggyback the stock VR sensor brown wire, but you need to connect the stock VR - (grey wire) to the MSII gnd also. It will work. Generally set you MSII pots full CCW, then 1 turn CW on each.

Tooth 1 angle is 60* btdc, therefore the missing tooth is 70*.
This is how the ecu's determine the ign timing - if tooth 1 was TDC then it could only predict the timing, not calculate it.

Dont worry too much about the injector banks and sequencing causing it not to idle, just set it up with the two banks, 1-2-3 and 4-5-6, 2 squirts simultaneous. You dont need to use the sync sensor, but you can connect it if you want to set up semi-seqential or sequential injection at a later stage (MS3). You need to build a second VR interface for the sync sensor, using an LM1815 is the best way to go.

for the PWM valve, a TIP120 will work, but your much better off using an IGBT for it (same as coil driver) also a 1N4004 diode from the - side of the PWM valve and band side to +12v ign to reduce flyback effects. the PWM settings are a bit tricky to get right, but persevere with it, and you will get good results.


i'm having some problems!! turns out the ms2e sparks in the order r29 r27 r26, i thought it was r26, r27, r29, so i had to swap around coil one and coil three. i can't get it to start tho!

so what do i put for my trigger angle/offset, how many pulses? is it rising edge caption?

what should i have for cranking dwell and cranking advance? i got 6ms and 10deg

is tooth #1 the missing tooth, or the tooth after? so tooth #1 angle btdc is 70 or 60 deg (i had 60)

 

_________________

PH 4480 racing extractors
lukey 2.5" sports exhaust
Chopper 19"x245 mags
pioneer deck, 6"x1.5" Splits (F) and 6" 3-way speakers (R)
Precision response 4x 100w amp and 1000w mono 10" sub
Got so much more to go!
tint, breaks and spoiler next!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:21 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 38

Posts: 1320

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: 66 Coupe

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

60* tooth 1
36 - 1 crank trigger wheel
does it have spark? have you checked timing with a timing light?
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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:03 am 
Tyre Shredder
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Joined: 23rd Jan 2005

Ride: AU I forte

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

yes there is a spark, haven't checked timing with a light, it should be in time tho shouldn't it? damn looks like i need another tool. so what do i do with the light? just look how many teeth its out then adjust the trigger angle/offset by that much? what value does the trigger angle/offset have? and i leave the trigger wheel settings with tooth #1 deg BTDC at 60 degrees?

thanks

should i cut the fuel while i'm doing this so i don't knock the crap out of the engine?

 

_________________

PH 4480 racing extractors
lukey 2.5" sports exhaust
Chopper 19"x245 mags
pioneer deck, 6"x1.5" Splits (F) and 6" 3-way speakers (R)
Precision response 4x 100w amp and 1000w mono 10" sub
Got so much more to go!
tint, breaks and spoiler next!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:08 am 
Tyre Shredder
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Joined: 23rd Jan 2005

Ride: AU I forte

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

i think i may have worked it out maybe, (i might still have to use the timing light) i was reading this:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_Miss_Tooth.htm
and it mentioned that if the teeth are ten degrees apart and its nine teeth from the missing tooth then its 90 degrees btdc then you got to put 80 degrees.

so i'll try putting in 50 degrees and see what happens

 

_________________

PH 4480 racing extractors
lukey 2.5" sports exhaust
Chopper 19"x245 mags
pioneer deck, 6"x1.5" Splits (F) and 6" 3-way speakers (R)
Precision response 4x 100w amp and 1000w mono 10" sub
Got so much more to go!
tint, breaks and spoiler next!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:15 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Posts: 319

Joined: 23rd Jan 2005

Ride: AU I forte

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Hi all

latest news, previously i was running off fuel only, it was difficult to tune for two reasons, 1, narrow band o2 sensor, 2, the engine would surge while trying to tune the fuel. I beleive this probably has something to do with the knock sensor and the stock ecu adjusting the spark advance.

so what i decided to do, is get the car running nicely with stock fuel and MS2 spark. Today i took the belt off and inched the crank along with a ratchet just to confirm for myself that there are indeed 6 teeth from the missing tooth to tdc. 66 coupe was exactly correct, i just had to see it for myself.

an issue that i had been having before, was the order of the leads coming out of the MS2. It turns out that the coil off resistor R26 is first! then R29 then R27. This is what had been causing issues the whole time! once everything was wired in the correct order i turned it over and it started first time no worries!!!

theres a new problem now, the stock ecu seems to 'know' somehow that it's spark isn't reaching the coils, i'm guessing it measure the current or something, so what is happening now is the stock ecu seems to be leaning the mixture right out to nothing.

So it looks like i'll have to install my wideband o2 sensor soon and take control of the fuel and ignition at the same time, which i was trying to avoid. However, saying that i'll just use the generic advance table and tune the fuel for starters as long as it all runs okay, then tune iteratively, fuel/spark/fuel/spark.

I'm thinking that the spark advance is just going to be a matter of increasing the advance untill it starts to knock? i'm going to see if theres a way i can use the stock knock sensor to inform me of when this happening

 

_________________

PH 4480 racing extractors
lukey 2.5" sports exhaust
Chopper 19"x245 mags
pioneer deck, 6"x1.5" Splits (F) and 6" 3-way speakers (R)
Precision response 4x 100w amp and 1000w mono 10" sub
Got so much more to go!
tint, breaks and spoiler next!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt time!
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:48 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Posts: 319

Joined: 23rd Jan 2005

Ride: AU I forte

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

hi running both fuel and ignition, got a nice idle, running a little rich as wideband isn't connected yet. just wondering, what ignition advance with rpm are you using as a guide?

i'm idling nicely under load with an advance of 16 deg, off load when i give it some revvs its good but it starts to knock at ~1500rpm and advance of 23 deg, is that too advanced? thanks

 

_________________

PH 4480 racing extractors
lukey 2.5" sports exhaust
Chopper 19"x245 mags
pioneer deck, 6"x1.5" Splits (F) and 6" 3-way speakers (R)
Precision response 4x 100w amp and 1000w mono 10" sub
Got so much more to go!
tint, breaks and spoiler next!

Top
 Profile  
 
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