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NFGhia Documents his MS Install 

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:02 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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does anyone no the web link to the site that someone posted on how to share the temp sensor it was in another thread and i have searched ms site and this site and cant find it i just wondering if someone might no it

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:12 pm 
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sickd wrote:
does anyone no the web link to the site that someone posted on how to share the temp sensor it was in another thread and i have searched ms site and this site and cant find it i just wondering if someone might no it


Hahaha!! I was just looking over the MS website... :lol:

This is the one... http://www.megasquirt.info/v22manual/sharesen.htm

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:38 pm 
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im looking at buying a v3 board (MSII) with some of my holiday work money this year, ive read up a lot on the MS website im still overwhelmed by it all, but once i get it and go through things step by step ill be right.

i like the way you went about wiring it in (get it all working with MS just "thinking" its running the show) that was the part that worried me the most, having to try and sort out all sorts of problems at once,

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:07 pm 
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ok made my tach signal thingy thanks to NFGHIA its good having a smartbloke to help us out here is the pics below its in a bottle cap and hot glued inside it lol real high quality stuff :D

 

 

Attachments:
car2 006.jpg
car2 006.jpg [ 31.03 KiB | Viewed 50 times ]

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:16 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Well all I can say is WOOHOO!!!.

SO I got around to hooking up the injectors this w/e. :shock: Here's how it went down...

First up I cut through the 8 injector lines to fit up the connector strip, I then fired up the car to get it warm on the EEC while I monitored MS on the laptop. I didn't want MS to be running any warm-up enrichments while I was trying to set up the VE table.
Once everything was looking sweet I plugged in MS and cranked her over.
She kicked over first time (had to feather the throttle to keep her idling) but after a few adjustments to the VE table had it idling not too bad. :D :D
Now as I suspected with MS having a table for a 350 I expected it to run a bit rich which it was. One thing I have found indespensible during this is my WideBand O2 sensor which has made the tuning side of things a heap easier.

After a bit of driving up and down the road and little more tweaking I actually had the car running real good, and from a seat of the pants feel it was more responsive off the mark than the stock EEC :twisted: :twisted:
So MS is only going to get better the more I fine tune it. Which is what I then started to do.. :roll: Anyway the first thing I did was get a bit more resolution out of the MAP.
Seeing as I'm N/A I have no need for anything above 100Kpa and from looking nothing below 50Kpa, I also linearised the RPM range. Here's what I mean..
Image
The standard VE table.

Image
My modified one.

Of course after doing that it started to run like a dog again. :lol: :lol:
So it was back to cruising back and forth while watching O2 meters and where in the VE table MS was... (Think I'll have to get a mate to drive the car while I sit with the laptop.)

And at the moment as I type this the, car is quite driveable and I'll cruise to work tomorrow 'Powered by MegaSquirt' :twisted:
I've also added the extra bit's for PWM idle and TFI Spark control and I have connected up the idle control, but not the spark yet!!

So in all it's going better (and easier) than I expected. 8-) And a top job there 'sickd' mine's just wrapped up in tape at the moment.
But this is the idea I have for mounting all the extra cct bits I need to add:

Image

Now (crossing fingers and touching wood) it's time to plug in the Spark control and hopefully she ticks over OK. :wink:

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:36 pm 
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Looking good :)
its amazing how fun this stuff is and how good it feels when you get it working just right.

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:19 am 
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Excellent! Sounds like it's going easier than I expected too! Pity yours is an 8 and not a 6, not that I'd pinch anyones base maps when I get around to doing mine... *whistles* :P
Sounds like the wideband O2 sensor will be a big plus in these initial tuning stages. Pity I don't have one... :?

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:39 pm 
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G'day

I must say I'M EXCITED.

Mines still in the process of getting built. Had a little problem with snapping the pins on the ms2 daughter card, DONT DO IT. I'm still trying to get replacement pins.

My conversion of carby to efi in my wagon is going along smoothly. Ive now got all the bits, 2 fuel pumps, surge tank, injectors, manifolds, fuel lines. Just got to get filters, pressure regulator and work out where the hell im gona mount the surge tank.

Cant wait to get the ms finished and in the car to start tuning.

Cheers

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:54 pm 
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Hey NFGhia, on the topic of wideband O2 sensors, what do you reckon about these ?
They seem pretty cheap in comparison to others available...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-WIDE ... enameZWDVW

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:44 pm 
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Hyena wrote:
Hey NFGhia, on the topic of wideband O2 sensors, what do you reckon about these ?
They seem pretty cheap in comparison to others available...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-WIDE ... enameZWDVW


I'm sorta considering wideband but after you get the sensor you need a controller which is what like, $250 or something like that.

sucks hey .. ;)

also NFGhia:

F**k nice work.. Time to get mine going i think!! I was going for the loom but i'm pretty sure i'm gonna ditch it.. I'm not gonna be selling the car anytime soon so if i cut into the loom who cares.. as long as i splice it up properly (solder, heatshrink) if i ever take it out...
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:22 pm 
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Hyena wrote:
Hey NFGhia, on the topic of wideband O2 sensors, what do you reckon about these ?
They seem pretty cheap in comparison to others available...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-WIDE ... enameZWDVW



Yeah as 'glennaux' says, that's just the sensor then you need one of these:
Image

I got this unit here http://wbo2.com/2e0/default.htm I got it in kit form and it cost (I think?) around $350 with the unit, sensor & cables.

BUT!!! for getting your cars up and running the narrowband sensor will be fine. The WideBand is good for fine tuning the car for optimum power (12.5-13.5 AFR) but initially the car runs like a b**ch, surging and stuttering so your just looking for 'lean' or 'rich' which a narrowband will give you. :) then it's more seat of the pants stuff.

I'll try and explain a bit further.. :roll:

First up the most used screen is the 'VE table' under tuning this one:
Image
For the initial stages of getting it running I'm just looking at that screen and the dots up and down the center showing rich or lean. Now because I'm set up for the WB O2 my dots move up and down a lot slower because it's reading a 0-5V linear signal instead of the NB O2 sensor's 0-1V sharp transition around 14.7 AFR.
It will at least tell you which way you need to move the points on the tuning map.
The way I've gone about it is thus'ly:
First up is getting it idling and you should already have programmed the constants page here:
Image
The hardest part here is knowing if it's rich or lean 'cause the O2 sensor doesn't come online for 30secs or so :x but a quick smell of the exhaust soon gives you a good idea. :lol:
Then instead of using the tuning table just enter higher or lower numbers directly into the Required Fuel window (one that reads 20.8) until it starts idling nicely.
In my case anyway it started running when I put in around 10.8 so I stopped the car while I adjusted all the values in the VE table down by half, then put in the original 20.8 and started up again. After that it was back to the tuning table to fine adjust.
Now supposedly there's a tool in Megatune where you put in your calculated ReqFuel then the one you use to get it idling and it should re-adjust the whole table to run with your calculated ReqFuel. But in the version of Megatune I'm running that option isn't included. :evil:
Once I had it idling and reving nicely I poped into gear and just started to bring up the revs a bit (foot on brake of course) while looking at the tuning table and seeing where the car is reading from within the map (there's a yellow spot that shows where in the table the car is looking) and adjusting around that point the appropriate amount until the engine pulls like it should. Of course don't do this for too long to the poor trans. :P
But it's just a case of increasing load and revs while watching the O2 dots and where in the VE table the car is, and adjusting away.
Unfortunately you can't practice this while MS is on the stim. :x
You'll soon get the idea of it once you get going tho...

Another thing on the constants page are the 'Injector Control' values.
On my V8 the EEC runs SEFI so only one injector fires at any one time but all eight fire in one engine cycle, as such the pressure in the fuel line stays pretty constant. Now I wired my injectors to MS with 1,3,5,7 going to INJ1 output and 2,4,6,8 going to INJ2 output and was going to fire them simultaneously at 8 injections per cycle but it caused the injector pulse width to drop below 2ms and I couldn't even start the car. :cry:
So I switched it to 2 injections per cycle and had been running the car that way for the last 2 days, but driving home today I noticed the note of the car sounded different slightly but drove fine. :?
Then it sort of clicked with only 2 injections per cycle and 8 cylinders firing then some cyls must be running rich and some lean but evening out overall..... hence the strange exhaust sound. :idea:
After getting home I switched over to the values in the pic with 8 injections per cycle but I switched over to Alternate Injector Staging.
To my surprise I got it going again but now its back to tweaking the VE table :x

And weather permitting sometime this week (once I have the table sorted again) it's plug the Spark control in and cross the old fingers. :wink:

 

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Pic's, details and all the yummy stuff:
http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22693

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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:28 am 
Getting Side Ways
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NFGhia wrote:
Yeah as 'glennaux' says, that's just the sensor then you need one of these:
Image


Ah, bugger. For some reason I thought the MS could drive the wideband sensors direct...
Sounds like those of us without the WBO2 sensors can get away with using the standard ones and then fine tune it on the dyno using one there.

 

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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:08 pm 
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oh well i just purchased the wid band o2 sensor dam lol.

ok nfghia how do you send a wide band signal to the ms?

do i need to buy that particular hand control so i can connect it to the ms or can i buy the cheapest hand controler lol ruff ruff cheap cheap lol

 

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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:02 pm 
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sickd wrote:
oh well i just purchased the wid band o2 sensor dam lol.

ok nfghia how do you send a wide band signal to the ms?

do i need to buy that particular hand control so i can connect it to the ms or can i buy the cheapest hand controler lol ruff ruff cheap cheap lol


Well I got that unit originally cause I was fiddling with the MAF signal to the stock EEC and needed something to track what was going on because it's a data logger as well. But now with MS all I really need from it is the WB output signal.. :cry:

So YES!! all you need is a rough as guts controller to run the WB O2 sensor.
All a controller needs to do is heat and read the signal from the sensor
But there are a number of different WBO2 sensors so make sure you get a controller that can calibrate and run the sensor you bought..
My best advice at this stage is to look over the Techedge website and read through the tech material about sensors.
There's something on the MS web about fitting a WB controller onto a Ver3 board (looks rather full on) but again look over the tech info to make a decision.

As for setting up MS, You don't have to do anything on the hardware side of things because MS interperets the signal as 0-5V so you have to set up Megatune to read the sensor you use. It's in the 'settings.ini' file here:

Image

The options there pretty much cover all the sensors out there..
The sensor I'm using is the 7075 type (or the cheap VW sensor) which works fine and I'm probably going to get another 'cheap' controller and sensor for the other exhaust and do a few more mods to MS.. :P
So let me know what you find as I might get one as well. hehe..

And just an update on mine: with a little more fiddling today I've got the old girl running real well. Still a little of adjustment to be done on the warm-up enrichments (so I can use my remote start with MS) It's a b**ch as you don't get too much time before the car's getting warm. :x
And a bit more tweaking of the acceleration wizard as there's a bit of a flat spot when I jump down on the accelerator, but if I ease into it she just take's off. :D :D

So in all I'm wrapped :P with the MS and although it's been a steep learning curve, I've learn't a s**t load about EFI systems. But half the info doesn't make much sense until you get "hands on".
But if I can help out any of you guy's out with your installs, I can hopefully give you the right answers. :?

Well back to looking at todays data logs... 8-)

 

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The TORQUE Monster project begins!

Pic's, details and all the yummy stuff:
http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22693

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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:57 am 
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Great thread NFGhia, im new to the whole EFI scene and have a little bit of electrical knowledge from when i was a youngen (used to love them d**k smith 'fun way' books ey).

Might ask ur help later on with setting up my MegaSquirt II, im not installing for performance just for learning/experimentation.

Anyways well done mate, top job ey, learnt heaps from this thrad.
Cheers
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