Fordmods Logo

Poor LPG economy (please help) 

 

Page 1 of 2 [ 16 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next

 
 Post subject: Poor LPG economy (please help)
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:46 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 36

Posts: 9453

Joined: 9th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: Fordrunner 5.0 Turbo

Location: Wollongong
NSW, Australia

In short I'm struggling to get 280kms out of a 65 Litre tank of LPG in my AUII duel fuel. This is discraceful as when I first got the car I was getting over 400kms easy.

Ok now for a bit of history.
About 18 months ago my factory vialle converter died (ruptured diaphram) and my gas man at the time suggested I cut costs and fit an airrod stage 2 converter. The vialle was around 700 supply while the airrod was 300 supply and fit so I took the plunge. Big mistake. Somehow the airrod didn't see eye to eye with the ford EEC and just refused to play ball. It had an erratic idle (I had to keep my foot on it otherwise it would lurch forward and do all sorts of wierd s**t) but the economy wasn't too bad. As a quick fix to the erratic idle and general rough running my new gasman tossed the stepper motor and fitted a manual screw adjustment.

The car ran as smooth as the day I got it but this is where the real bad economy began. I struggled to get 280kms to a tank and the car would ping in the top end under hard accelleration (no pinging on petrol). Apparently I had the wrong converter for my application and the only way to get around this was to either ditch the stepper motor or converter.

Then after perseveering for the last year and a bit with s**t economy I bit the bullet and ordered a factory vialle replacement converter and had it fitted with my original stepper motor. Guess what. Same problem with economy. The pinging under load went away for a week or 2 and now its back like before.

Possible causes.
Stepper motor - Could it have s**t itself the same time as my converter? Is there a way to test it? Someone told me to switch the reds on and the valve inside should fully extend. I've tired that and it won't budge at all. Does it extend to the fully open position or the closed position. My stepper motor appears as if its jammed open.

ISC - I know this is a long shot and an ISC can't contribute to a 25-30% loss in economy but I'm looking at ALL possible causes here. My ISC appears to be full of crap. I've tried cleaning it but its impossible to clean around the spring and valve. I think its close to dead as when the car's warm the idle in Neutral keeps going between 800rpm and 1200rpm. Also I can feel the car lurch foward when at the lights sometimes (not like the idle with the airrod conveter, that was rough and all over the place. This is smooth and all over the place). I've tried swapping it with the one in the fairlane which is clean as a whistle but all it did was raise my idle by 100rpm.

ECU reset - After you change any parts on the car should you reset the computer, and what is the correct procedure for the AU dual fuel? I've never reset my ECU before, not even once. Just change the parts and drive away hoping the ecu relearns all by itself.

General condition of the engine - The engine has just a tick under the magical half a mill mark. I've checked the compression a few weeks ago and it came up ok but cylinders 2 and 3 were about 200kPa down on the rest. The rest were around the 1250kPa mark. Also I have at least 1 broken engine mount as I can feel the engine lift and drop when I stab the throttle.

That's all I can think of at the moment except that the injectors are stuffed as the car runs worse than my old XF on petrol but runs like a dream on gas.

Anyone got any ideas as this is pissing me off big time. My car has half the economy of a Gen3 driven by a leadfoot and that's just not right.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:40 am 
Technical Contributor
Offline

Age: 31

Posts: 6047

Joined: 12th Nov 2004

Ride: Ford Ef Futura

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

I get about 290 of a 52L tank (I think). Is that good or bad?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:56 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 988

Joined: 4th Dec 2004

Ride: el faimont, dual fuel

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

with ticky system or any decent aftermarket aim for atleast 350 local and 450highway.

the stepper motor moves when you turn the ignition on, comes all the way out and then sets it self for start position. one way the repair manual says to check its operation.

when you ditched the stepper motor the eec will have recorded fault codes. so reset is in order.

some mechs i have seen push the stepper motor valve in manually when fitting this f**k it up. they did it when we had our one rebuilt months back caused it not to start or idle, as the valve dropped not allowing any gas thru.

how long ago was the new vialle fitted?

aufalcon.com has a procedure for reseting ulp falcs, i'm guessing it would be the same but run it on petrol until it relearns, thats what we do when changing batteries.

on prices, i can pick up new vialle converters from ford for 550, get rebuilt units from a major supplier for 270 with 3 month warranty, this is just walk in vialle converter for au2 taxi please, no mates rates etc. so your getting raped at 700 for one.

 

_________________

why do u write in here.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:25 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 36

Posts: 9453

Joined: 9th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: Fordrunner 5.0 Turbo

Location: Wollongong
NSW, Australia

The vialle was fitted in early November. I forgot to mention that I had also changed the O2 sensor as my new gas man had thought that would have been the problem but it turns out its not. Looks like its off to the gas man again so he can take it for a spin with a lambda probe in its a*** so he can see what's going on first hand.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:31 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 36

Posts: 2215

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 17 images

Ride: Oettinger Golf GTI

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

Seriously, my advice would be take it to Joe in sydney and get him to dyno tune it all up.

Before him i was getting pretty s**t economy and afterwards i was getting the power with the economy as well. Freeway about 520-650 (most ive had was about 680 mark). City anything from 250-320.

Definately take it to someone who knows what they're doing as so many lpg people claim to know but really can do a quick job for it to be driveable till it dies back to their workshop, trust me ive been there!

Call him and sort a day/time, (02) 96006229. (Joe/crescent motors)
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:45 am 
Technical Contributor
Offline

Age: 31

Posts: 6047

Joined: 12th Nov 2004

Ride: Ford Ef Futura

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Ask if he can recommend anyone for the GOld Coast as well.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:23 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 988

Joined: 4th Dec 2004

Ride: el faimont, dual fuel

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

the ticky system is vacum controlled so i don't think the o2 sensor would do anything, check the o2 by driving on petrol and checking economy.

as said i would be looking for new mech as this bloke sounds a litlle doge.

 

_________________

why do u write in here.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:49 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 36

Posts: 9453

Joined: 9th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: Fordrunner 5.0 Turbo

Location: Wollongong
NSW, Australia

Every one in the gong is dodge. The only time they drop what they're doing and rush to work on your car is if they know your cashed up and spend serous dollars with them. Even then they rip you off and even the performance shops are like that down here. All the gasmen are f**k as once someone f**k your car the rest are too scared to touch it. Its only gas and all of the gasmen are licensed to install the same systems as well as repair the factory units. What the f**k is wrong with these so called industry proffessionals?

Anyone know the AU dual fuel ECU reset procedure? I'm going to try and work this one myself then consult with a professional for a final opinion.

Its going to be hard for me to lose almost a days wages by taking the taxi up to sydney to get it checked out. I know the end result will be a benefit but the hard part is trying to pick a dead day so i can book the car in and lately work has been all over the place and what has generally been quiet is flat out. Right now i need all the cash i can get.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:50 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 2644

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Gallery: 8 images

Ride: 2007

Location: Mount Annan
NSW, Australia

msman wrote:
on prices, i can pick up new vialle converters from ford for 550, get rebuilt units from a major supplier for 270 with 3 month warranty, this is just walk in vialle converter for au2 taxi please, no mates rates etc. so your getting raped at 700 for one.
I picked up my new Vialle convertor today from my local LPG installer for $374.40 including $15 freight from Sydney, so fraud must enjoy sellng these.
Cheers
TW.

 

_________________

BF Fairmont Ghia Series II update.
GQ XR6T ghia patrol.

,======o00o
//__|__|_,\_____\,___
|_/--\'_|'__|_/--\_[]IIII[]
_( o ) )_____( o ) )=o=) )__

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Poor LPG economy (please help)
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:00 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 2644

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Gallery: 8 images

Ride: 2007

Location: Mount Annan
NSW, Australia

xcabbi wrote:
Possible causes.
Stepper motor - Could it have s**t itself the same time as my converter? Is there a way to test it? Someone told me to switch the reds on and the valve inside should fully extend. I've tired that and it won't budge at all. Does it extend to the fully open position or the closed position. My stepper motor appears as if its jammed open.

xcabbi,
I would not mind betting the stepper motor is stuffed, I have replaced mine 2 times in 18 months. If your convertor is or was leaking coolant then the stepper will seize. I also have had one fail when the pintal became semi detached from the linear motor so that when the motor retracts the pintal still is blocking the vapour outlet. Is the car duel fuel? if so then when the ignition is turned on when petrol is selected the pintal should extend fully then retract fully.
Cheers
TW.

 

_________________

BF Fairmont Ghia Series II update.
GQ XR6T ghia patrol.

,======o00o
//__|__|_,\_____\,___
|_/--\'_|'__|_/--\_[]IIII[]
_( o ) )_____( o ) )=o=) )__

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:02 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 36

Posts: 9453

Joined: 9th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: Fordrunner 5.0 Turbo

Location: Wollongong
NSW, Australia

The reason my first gas man had them for $700 is that he did the dealer fitted installs for the local ford dealership. He reckons he orders his converters from ford and not directly from vialle.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:03 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 2644

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Gallery: 8 images

Ride: 2007

Location: Mount Annan
NSW, Australia

xcabbi wrote:
The reason my first gas man had them for $700 is that he did the dealer fitted installs for the local ford dealership. He reckons he orders his converters from ford and not directly from vialle.
Let me know if you need spares and I will get a realistic price for you.
Cheers
TW.

 

_________________

BF Fairmont Ghia Series II update.
GQ XR6T ghia patrol.

,======o00o
//__|__|_,\_____\,___
|_/--\'_|'__|_/--\_[]IIII[]
_( o ) )_____( o ) )=o=) )__

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:08 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 36

Posts: 9453

Joined: 9th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: Fordrunner 5.0 Turbo

Location: Wollongong
NSW, Australia

Its cool. I get s**t from ford for dealer price. If I knew any better I would have ordered the converter from the dealership for the dealer price and gotten him to fit it.

I just want to check my stepper motor to see if its really dead. Someone said earlier that once it has been diconnected you need to reset the computer if you reconect it cause the computer still thinks its not there. Maybe that's why mine won't open or close.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:19 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 2644

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Gallery: 8 images

Ride: 2007

Location: Mount Annan
NSW, Australia

xcabbi wrote:
Its cool. I get s**t from ford for dealer price. If I knew any better I would have ordered the converter from the dealership for the dealer price and gotten him to fit it.

I just want to check my stepper motor to see if its really dead. Someone said earlier that once it has been diconnected you need to reset the computer if you reconect it cause the computer still thinks its not there. Maybe that's why mine won't open or close.
There is no feedback from the stepper motor so the ecu does not know if it is removed, that is the reason for the extend and retract motion when on petrol so it recalibrates the position. I think your problem is more than just resetting the ecu, it is closed loop system so the O2 sensor should keep the mixture correct.
Cheers
TW.

 

_________________

BF Fairmont Ghia Series II update.
GQ XR6T ghia patrol.

,======o00o
//__|__|_,\_____\,___
|_/--\'_|'__|_/--\_[]IIII[]
_( o ) )_____( o ) )=o=) )__

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:24 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 36

Posts: 9453

Joined: 9th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: Fordrunner 5.0 Turbo

Location: Wollongong
NSW, Australia

Well like I've said before I've changed my 02 sensor before christmass. i think its the stepper motor cause I took it off the converter (still plugged in to the ECU), put the reds on while on petrol and the thing did not budge at all. Put it back on and then after work that day after I shut the car down i took off the stepper motor and it was in the exact same position. Either its shagged or the ECU can't see it.
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:33 am All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names