Fordmods Logo

Quick LPG Question 

 

Page 1 of 2 [ 20 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next

 
 Post subject: Quick LPG Question
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:34 pm 
Fordmods Addict
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 7958

Joined: 1st Jun 2005

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Falcon

Power: 237 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

I have no idea with LPG, so just tell me if I'm making no sense, or sound like a d**k :P

Anyway, on my car, dual fuel setup, the gas feeds directly into the airbox.
This has always seemed weird to me.
Shouldn't there be some sort of mixer or something in the intake piping that it feeds into?

It runs s**t on gas, idles like a dog, takes ages to start, and at idle, gas can be strongly smelt from the exhaust(is that normal?)
Because of thse problems, I always avoid using gas.
only use it when I'm poor, or running dangerously low on petrol.

So what I'm wondering is, would a better system of feeding the gas into the intake help with these problems?
I'll grab some pics in a tick and post 'em up...

 

_________________

ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw
BF MKII F6 Tornado - 237rwkw

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:39 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 4307

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: EF Falcon XT-T

Location: Mornington Peninsula
VIC, Australia

i HIGHLY doubt it feeds into the air box.
there is usually a pipe between the airbox and converter called a balance pipe, but thats it.

 

_________________

FALCN6 - EF GLi Turbo, 20" Rims, Air Bag Suspension, Straight LPG, 225rwkw
DTHWGN - EA GL Wagon, LTD Interior, Satin Black, 5.0, Turbo
RACER - EF Futura , 5.0, 5 Speed
PROJECT - 83 Thunderbird, Lowered, 18" Billet Wheels
DAILY - BA Fairmont Ghia 5.4 3V

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Quick LPG Question
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:44 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 30

Posts: 4609

Joined: 29th Jul 2005

Gallery: 10 images

Ride: BOXCAR

Location: Launceston
TAS, Australia

Steady ED wrote:
I have no idea with LPG, so just tell me if I'm making no sense, or sound like a d**k :P

Anyway, on my car, dual fuel setup, the gas feeds directly into the airbox.
This has always seemed weird to me.
Shouldn't there be some sort of mixer or something in the intake piping that it feeds into?

It runs s**t on gas, idles like a dog, takes ages to start, and at idle, gas can be strongly smelt from the exhaust(is that normal?)
Because of thse problems, I always avoid using gas.
only use it when I'm poor, or running dangerously low on petrol.

So what I'm wondering is, would a better system of feeding the gas into the intake help with these problems?
I'll grab some pics in a tick and post 'em up...


never heard/seen a system where it feeds into the airbox...I don't know much about Gas myself, but on my car the mixer is a part of the intake piping. The Gas smell is just the exhaust fumes and is normal. Stand behind a taxi and see what i mean. It shouldn't run rough or take ages to start as well. I'd say thats a tuning problem

 

_________________

^^^ What He Said

<a href="http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=44952" target="_blank" class="postlink"> TAS Cruises</a>

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:45 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 30

Posts: 4609

Joined: 29th Jul 2005

Gallery: 10 images

Ride: BOXCAR

Location: Launceston
TAS, Australia

EFFalcon wrote:
i HIGHLY doubt it feeds into the air box.
there is usually a pipe between the airbox and converter called a balance pipe, but thats it.


or is it called a converter? i dunno :roll:

 

_________________

^^^ What He Said

<a href="http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=44952" target="_blank" class="postlink"> TAS Cruises</a>

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:55 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline

Posts: 227

Joined: 11th Dec 2004

Location: Gold Coast
QLD, Australia

If you can smell the gas strongly you most likely have a tunning issue. LPG does need readjustment perodically to account for the wear of the diaphrams in the convertor, this varies dependant on many factors. You don't need to have a discharge ring to run on LPG but it definitely runs better. I find it easier to get the mixtures spot on when I work on forklifts which have the discharge ring as opposed to a pipe mounted into the carby bonnet.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:58 pm 
Fordmods Addict
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 7958

Joined: 1st Jun 2005

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Falcon

Power: 237 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Yes EFFalcon, you're correct, after closer inspection (I really detest the LPG system on my car, so I just kinda pretend it's not there) it's not the LPG line.
It's some other f**k thing.
It literally just threads into the box with a brass fitting.

Also, has anyone ever heard of LPG fitting requiring the complete removal of any form of CAI?
Originally, it had not only an aluminium plate riveted in blocking the snorkel, but also a big a** holedrilled into the snorkel to suck hot engine bay air...
Plate was easy, just drilled out the rivets.
For the hole, I orignally tried bending a piece of plast and siliconing it in, but after multiple accidents with the heatgun, and the realisation that silicon really doesn't work sticking plastic to plastic, I grabbed the good old electrical tape and gave it a good wrapping :P

Anyway, heres some pics...

 

 

Attachments:
File comment: The picture where I realised I was a dumbass
jareds gas 005.jpg
jareds gas 005.jpg [ 41.6 KiB | Viewed 64 times ]
File comment: Ze USH (unidentified stationary hose)
jareds gas 002.jpg
jareds gas 002.jpg [ 39.34 KiB | Viewed 64 times ]
File comment: Brass fitting into airbox
jareds gas 001.jpg
jareds gas 001.jpg [ 45.31 KiB | Viewed 65 times ]

 

_________________

ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw
BF MKII F6 Tornado - 237rwkw

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:02 pm 
Fordmods Addict
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 7958

Joined: 1st Jun 2005

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Falcon

Power: 237 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Also should mention, it goes over the TB, then under the manifold runners somewhere.
Don't know where it GOES to...

 

_________________

ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw
BF MKII F6 Tornado - 237rwkw

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:21 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 107

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Ride: EL Futura

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

The hose going to the air box is a balance line. It goes to the converter and has something to do with measureing the air pressure and adjusting the LPG accordingly.

 

_________________

Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:26 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

when i bought my Ef there was no snorkel, fitted an AU XR8 one, and the car just stalled. Had to have the system retuned to run with it!

The line to your air box is a balance line - it's part of the LPG, tells it the air pressure or amount or air or something along those lines. The picture looks like a crude version, usually there is a brass thingo mounted on the side and it usually hooks in to help catch the air, but same thing i guess.

At currentl petrol prices you might want to consider getting your system running well. And by the way, when they do run well you'll love em.

As for your exhaust gas, it might be running rich hence the extra stong LPG smell. But you will find the exhaust out of an engine running on gas will smell very different to one running on petty, so don't worry about it too much.

Starting on gas, don't bother, if your cars duel fuel, try to start on petrol, your car will start better, and it'll help to keep your injectors clean/unblocked.

Speaking of looking after the injectors - an interesting thing that I found out my LPG controller unit can do is that you can set it to automatically switch back to petrol (for just 2 minutes) every 15 minutes of running on LPG - to help maintain your petrol system. Personally I wouldn't bother, but was interested to find that out...

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:45 pm 
Fordmods Newbie
Offline

Posts: 7

Joined: 12th Oct 2005

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

The tube to the air box is a balance tube - it prodides a reference for the pressure regulator (near 0 PSI).

The actual LPG is fed into the aluminium thingo (mixer) on your car. There should be an electronics box someplace controlling the LPG via a valve in the LPG line from the mixer to the regulator.

There is no reason that you should have those problems or more than a marginal loss of performance with the LPG system. I actually have MORE power with LPG than petrol - 2.5kw more, but more.

Get the car to somebody who knows LPG and performance. My local GAS Research (Hoppers Crossing) outlet is doing a TT 6.6 LPG powered street car. They have been very helpful (but busy).

Dave
Happy GAS Research customer
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:16 am 
Fordmods Addict
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 7958

Joined: 1st Jun 2005

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Falcon

Power: 237 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Cheers guys!
Yeah, I need to look at getting it tuned properly.
Actually, when I fixed the CAI it seemed to improve idle slightly.
Got an XH snorkel coming, so I'll whack that on, then head to somewhere to get it tuned.
Out of pure curiosity, I don't intend on trying it, but how hard are gas systems to tune, and how is it done?
Are there adjusting screws in the converter, or can that solenoid thing in the gas line be adjusted or what?

 

_________________

ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw
BF MKII F6 Tornado - 237rwkw

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:43 am 
Fordmods Newbie
Offline

Posts: 7

Joined: 12th Oct 2005

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Most non electronci LPG systems have an idle mixture (same as carby), and a max gas flow adjustment (think main jet in carby terms). From there the options are limited to the type of system.

As a result it can be experimental getting the right mixture under varying load conditions. A dyno operator with good LPG expereince on your system is a big plus.

Electronically controlled LPG mixer systems CAN be more accurate, but the main advantage is the loss of the restriction in the induction system. This is the reason my wastegate senses AFTER the IMPCO LPG mixer (and intercooler) but prior to the throttle body.


Dave
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:57 am 
Fordmods Addict
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 7958

Joined: 1st Jun 2005

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Falcon

Power: 237 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Yeah, I've read somewhere before that for accurate LPG tuning a dyno and four-gas analyzer are pretty much necessary.

Where would the idle mixture adjustment be lc_80?
I can post some more pics of the system when I get home, atm I'm at work.
It's the idle that is really the main problem.
I can live with a slight reduction in low-down torque (which is what it suffers from on gas, it actually isn't that bad towards the top end)
It's just when you have to left foot brake at traffic lights and give it some throttle to keep it running that s**t me up the wall.

 

_________________

ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw
BF MKII F6 Tornado - 237rwkw

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:12 pm 
Fordmods Addict
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 7958

Joined: 1st Jun 2005

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Falcon

Power: 237 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Righto all you LPG wiz's, is it within the realm of possibility for LPG hating me to adjust the idle mixture on this convertor so as to achieve an acceptable idle?

 

 

Attachments:
File comment: A completely unnecessary pic of my favoured ride
jareds gas 006.jpg
jareds gas 006.jpg [ 32.47 KiB | Viewed 54 times ]
File comment: Convertor
jareds gas 004.jpg
jareds gas 004.jpg [ 39.66 KiB | Viewed 87 times ]

 

_________________

ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw
BF MKII F6 Tornado - 237rwkw

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:33 pm 
Fordmods Newbie
Offline

Posts: 7

Joined: 12th Oct 2005

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

What you have a pic of appears to be the convertor/regulator, not the mixer (thats the first pic yesterday at 18:58).

I have attached a pic of the IMPCO 225 mixer. The idle screw is the one on top.

For those with forced induction, I have included a pic of the balance tube connecting to the regulator. You DO need the metal top plate for the convertor, otherwise the pressure (boost) will cause it to leak & eventually crack. Thats a 1/2" balance hose I've used. This keeps the mixture consistant across most of the rev / load / boost range (low boost for continous duty use).


Dave
ENG-TEK

 

 

Attachments:
File comment: Regulator balance tube for boosted applications
Convertor -Balance-tube.jpg
Convertor -Balance-tube.jpg [ 91.98 KiB | Viewed 62 times ]
File comment: IMPCO 225 Idle screw
IMPCO-225-Idle.jpg
IMPCO-225-Idle.jpg [ 92.67 KiB | Viewed 57 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:17 am All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names