Fordmods Logo

straight PROPANE gas fuel on high boost turbo application 

 

Page 1 of 2 [ 19 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next

 
 Post subject: straight PROPANE gas fuel on high boost turbo application
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:35 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 1656

Joined: 22nd Jun 2005

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

hi

just something i was thinking about , have no fggen idea why ????

has anyone of you LPgas guy thought about using straight propane gas in liquid form injected or metered by some jetting arrangement the correct air/fuel ratio on a high boost turbo application

You wouldnt need a intercooler as the propane gas in liquid form is extremely cold ( have to do ur homework on how cold )

no need for convertors !!

line feed pressure valve !!! u would have to over come it from coming on !!!

one would inject ( meter some how ) into the incoming air charge stream of the inlet manifold to allow ample time for the to mix well and the liquid propane to vapourizes

imagine the heat transfer MMMM !!!

just a thought


lets see what some of u guys come up with

cheers

 

_________________

FS [VIC]: WorkShop CleanOut - Assorted Parts Some New & Chassis Dyno http://www.fordmods.com/ford-parts-for-sale-f17/fs-workshop-cleanout-assorted-parts-some-new-chassis-dyno-t123623.html

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:17 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 4307

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: EF Falcon XT-T

Location: Mornington Peninsula
VIC, Australia

you'd have to figure out a way to ensure the metering valve doesn't freeze up.
also going straight propane would make it harder to get hold of (only supagas etc sell it) but would suit a drag car or something.

but as you said, i'd say its more the controlling that would take all the work with the freezing causing problems.

 

_________________

FALCN6 - EF GLi Turbo, 20" Rims, Air Bag Suspension, Straight LPG, 225rwkw
DTHWGN - EA GL Wagon, LTD Interior, Satin Black, 5.0, Turbo
RACER - EF Futura , 5.0, 5 Speed
PROJECT - 83 Thunderbird, Lowered, 18" Billet Wheels
DAILY - BA Fairmont Ghia 5.4 3V

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: direct lpg
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:18 pm 
Fordmods Newbie
Offline

Age: 59

Posts: 18

Joined: 6th Apr 2005

Location: gosford
NSW, Australia

dont do it, dont even think about it, one word BANG!!!!! no more car.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:01 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 2644

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Gallery: 8 images

Ride: 2007

Location: Mount Annan
NSW, Australia

EFFalcon wrote:
you'd have to figure out a way to ensure the metering valve doesn't freeze up.
also going straight propane would make it harder to get hold of (only supagas etc sell it) but would suit a drag car or something.

but as you said, i'd say its more the controlling that would take all the work with the freezing causing problems.

I think fork lifts use propane in those change over bottles, so that might not be a problem if its only for the strip. It must be hard to do the liquid injection as the vast majority of systems are still conventional convertor/ mixer.
Cheers
TW.

 

_________________

BF Fairmont Ghia Series II update.
GQ XR6T ghia patrol.

,======o00o
//__|__|_,\_____\,___
|_/--\'_|'__|_/--\_[]IIII[]
_( o ) )_____( o ) )=o=) )__

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: direct lpg
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:10 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 1656

Joined: 22nd Jun 2005

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

michael wrote:
dont do it, dont even think about it, one word BANG!!!!! no more car.


hi

LOL , what do u think the LPgas mixture contains ?? By ur thaory all LPgas systems go BANG !!!!

freezing would be a issue ?
i have heard of people actaully doing straight propane fuel dont know how they have done it but its a interesting concept



cheers

 

_________________

FS [VIC]: WorkShop CleanOut - Assorted Parts Some New & Chassis Dyno http://www.fordmods.com/ford-parts-for-sale-f17/fs-workshop-cleanout-assorted-parts-some-new-chassis-dyno-t123623.html

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:07 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 4307

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: EF Falcon XT-T

Location: Mornington Peninsula
VIC, Australia

striaght propane can be done via the use of a normal LPG tank.
supagas allow you to fill up your car on stiraght propane.

 

_________________

FALCN6 - EF GLi Turbo, 20" Rims, Air Bag Suspension, Straight LPG, 225rwkw
DTHWGN - EA GL Wagon, LTD Interior, Satin Black, 5.0, Turbo
RACER - EF Futura , 5.0, 5 Speed
PROJECT - 83 Thunderbird, Lowered, 18" Billet Wheels
DAILY - BA Fairmont Ghia 5.4 3V

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: need to be pumped
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:40 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 1656

Joined: 22nd Jun 2005

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

hi


the biggest problem is wot i have encounted is on real big horsepower engines the LPgas systems just can not cope. and wot u see is 2 ,3 and 4 gas convertors under the bonnet of the car.

so my thoughts are why play around with low pressure gas when we have the high pressure in the tank as in Liquid form .

ie 1 cu cm - of vapour will occupy a set about of space

where

1 cu cm - of Liquid propane will occupy a very large sum of space compared to the vapour and not to mention its cooling propperties.

ideal for high boost turbo applications ?????


Ok we know LPgas is odaless and invisable and very flammable but so are some other fuels and people use them.


cheers

 

_________________

FS [VIC]: WorkShop CleanOut - Assorted Parts Some New & Chassis Dyno http://www.fordmods.com/ford-parts-for-sale-f17/fs-workshop-cleanout-assorted-parts-some-new-chassis-dyno-t123623.html

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:40 am 
Site Admin
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 8831

Joined: 18th Dec 2002

Gallery: 6 images

Ride: AUII V8 LTD

Power: 270 rwkw

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

By 'venting' the propane in gas form into the intake tubing, you're effectivly converting it to vapour anyway due to the drop to atmospheric pressure (correct me if my theory is wrong!). Here by creating a s**t LPG Converter which will freeze up. Add engine coolant passthrough to prevent freezing and you have something which is very close to a traditional LPG mixer, except probably less effective. The only way this would work would be if the intake tubing was under the same pressure as the gas bottle :)

Technocarb comes to mind - do some reearch. 600+HP per mixer, and there are converters to match @ 600HP each. This is what will be used in my 347 stroker build.

 

_________________

WAG363: AUII LTD Supercharged 363 Dart Stroker [Supercharged 363 LTD Build]
WAGGIN: 2012 Volkswagen Passat Wagon - V6 4Motion.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: big bang theory
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:40 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 1656

Joined: 22nd Jun 2005

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Waggin wrote:
By 'venting' the propane in gas form into the intake tubing, you're effectivly converting it to vapour anyway due to the drop to atmospheric pressure (correct me if my theory is wrong!). Here by creating a s**t LPG Converter which will freeze up. Add engine coolant passthrough to prevent freezing and you have something which is very close to a traditional LPG mixer, except probably less effective. The only way this would work would be if the intake tubing was under the same pressure as the gas bottle :)

Technocarb comes to mind - do some reearch. 600+HP per mixer, and there are converters to match @ 600HP each. This is what will be used in my 347 stroker build.



hi

ok , we know the purpose of a convertor but a poor piece of equipmenet propane in liquid form has a greater qorking pressure than propane in a gas form

freezing is a issue

metering ????

the heat exchange from liquid to vapour once the propane enters the inlet manifold would be a great intercooler for incoming hot air charge say from a turbo or supercharger when on high boost .

Liquid propane expands to greater volume bigger bang?????? !!!!!


still need to vapourize the liquid just before it enters the cylinder to make a nice air to fuel miture rather than having a large some of air in one corner and a large some of fuel in onther

cheers

 

_________________

FS [VIC]: WorkShop CleanOut - Assorted Parts Some New & Chassis Dyno http://www.fordmods.com/ford-parts-for-sale-f17/fs-workshop-cleanout-assorted-parts-some-new-chassis-dyno-t123623.html

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: straight PROPANE gas fuel on high boost turbo applicatio
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:00 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 2644

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Gallery: 8 images

Ride: 2007

Location: Mount Annan
NSW, Australia

FPV_GTp wrote:
hi

just something i was thinking about , have no fggen idea why ????

has anyone of you LPgas guy thought about using straight propane gas in liquid form injected or metered by some jetting arrangement the correct air/fuel ratio on a high boost turbo application

You wouldnt need a intercooler as the propane gas in liquid form is extremely cold ( have to do ur homework on how cold )

no need for convertors !!

line feed pressure valve !!! u would have to over come it from coming on !!!

one would inject ( meter some how ) into the incoming air charge stream of the inlet manifold to allow ample time for the to mix well and the liquid propane to vapourizes

imagine the heat transfer MMMM !!!

just a thought


lets see what some of u guys come up with

cheers

Just a thought? How about normal injectors with the REPCO heater thingy installed to prevent freezing, and a barby regulator to keep the pressure constant.
Cheers
TW.

 

_________________

BF Fairmont Ghia Series II update.
GQ XR6T ghia patrol.

,======o00o
//__|__|_,\_____\,___
|_/--\'_|'__|_/--\_[]IIII[]
_( o ) )_____( o ) )=o=) )__

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: wooooooooooo 200 plus Kwatts
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 1656

Joined: 22nd Jun 2005

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

wooooooooooooooooo 200 plus Kwatts that is inpressive



oops wrong thread swooorrrry :oops:

 

_________________

FS [VIC]: WorkShop CleanOut - Assorted Parts Some New & Chassis Dyno http://www.fordmods.com/ford-parts-for-sale-f17/fs-workshop-cleanout-assorted-parts-some-new-chassis-dyno-t123623.html

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:15 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 35

Posts: 4285

Joined: 8th Dec 2004

Gallery: 25 images

Ride: EB2 Ghia,Mighty Boy,Eb1 Xr8 5spd

Location: ** In the Shed! **
VIC, Australia

Liquid lpg injection has been played with, and the real issue is in the fuel metering, not so much freezing inlet valves. LPG expands from a liquid to a gas, filling 280% more space in gaseous form iirc. Try to meter that!

Anyone heard of Liquiphase? LPG Liquid injection technology, originally trialed on a V8 5lt dunnydore iirc. It worked, but it was very far from reliable.

Next best thing is current LPG Gas Injection, like what i and another forum member have fitted to our cars, my system is a piggy back so the car is dual fuel and dual ecu, the other forum member, can't remember their handle, is a straight lpg setup, with stealth injectors and stock ECU setup.

The latter system would be better than mine, but it's not availible down in vic, the system i have wasn't even @ the time i had it fitted, i talked the installer into it, with a big wad of folding fun. It was still developement stuff @ the time. It was definatly worth the $$, same sorta power on LPG & Petrol, very similar ltrs to the 100KMS between fuels, and that makes the ford affordable to run. I have racked up about 40k kms on my LPG Injection system with little issues, and those i have had were related to normal engine / sensor wear and tear. It's now a commercial product, thru parnell lpg.

I don't know if it will run in a boosted application, parnell won't even talk to me about it. I sugested the idea and got a big WON'T touch the thing. I would experiment with it if i had the $$. I've got 50KW of power to claim before i would have issues with it leaning out, then would need to think about another regulator and injector or two. The system i have is meant to be good to fuel 200 FWKW. But i'm busy building a Turbo & GRA LPG fed Torana 6cyl. :D

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

_________________

I am the ToranaGuy!|74 Lh Torana Turbo|78 Hz PanelVan|86 Mighty Boy Ute|93 EB2 Ghia,GT Mockup,5spd,LPGI,Full Leather|2 x EB Xr8 5spd's|FS [VIC]: Wrecking - Eb XR8 - Parts available |Build Thread|Ebay Items - Ford Parts|

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:51 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 40

Posts: 2015

Joined: 9th Mar 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: Territory TX AWD & AUII XLS EGAS

Location: East Kurrajong
NSW, Australia

SVI LPG Vapour injection is around the $3500 mark for the full installation .... I have heard of a fwe straight gas setup in limos in QLD ... I know of a dual fuel setup on a Territory.

I am not sure how well it handles high horsepower though ... have only seen them fitted to factory setup vehicles (without mods).

 

_________________

04 Territory TX AWD - Winter White - optioned up
06 Falcon BFII XLS ute EGAS - Winter White - EGA-54D Version 2

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: straight gas
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:15 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 1656

Joined: 22nd Jun 2005

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

hi

have a look at the ford cars that come out of the factory straight gas no petrol , i know there not injected , put there power is nearly the same as petrol cars

so the ECU that controls the rest of the engine managment must be tuned for optimum ignition timing and so on

but i know one of my friends had one of these cars as a work vehicle and every hot day 30 degrees plus the gas system would play up

ie the fuel lock off valve would shut the fuel feed to the convertor , and every time ford serviced the car they couldnt find anything wrong with the car , there reply was to him " ur car is fine "

and yet on a 30 degree plus day it would play up

cheers just some trivia there


does anyone know what compression ratio the ford 6 cylinders on straight gas out of the ford factory ran ????

 

_________________

FS [VIC]: WorkShop CleanOut - Assorted Parts Some New & Chassis Dyno http://www.fordmods.com/ford-parts-for-sale-f17/fs-workshop-cleanout-assorted-parts-some-new-chassis-dyno-t123623.html

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:20 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 40

Posts: 2015

Joined: 9th Mar 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: Territory TX AWD & AUII XLS EGAS

Location: East Kurrajong
NSW, Australia

The EGAS engines are about 20-odd kw less than the petrol variants.
It's being held back by a carby-style gas delivery system ... along with a restrictive mixer ring in the intake to the throttlebody.

Also the head and pistons are different in the EGAS engine as well.

Isn't kinda inferior to the petrol injected vehicles.

I have an AUII EGAS ute ... and on hot days .... I don't have any issues whatsoever ... the ute runs perfectly ... even in the middle of winter where morning temps are around -4 deg ... mine starts first go (after about 2 seconds) and idles perfectly.

I just run mine for pretty much 11 hours straight the other day (Sydney to ACT to Wagga to Sydney again) ... about 1000km ... temps reached 35-36 deg outside ... car ran like a dream ... as smooth as a petrol car goes.

It all comes down to tuning on how an LPG car runs.

I saw the specs on another forum for the AU and BA Comp ratios/power figures ... I'll post them up when i find them.

 

_________________

04 Territory TX AWD - Winter White - optioned up
06 Falcon BFII XLS ute EGAS - Winter White - EGA-54D Version 2

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:49 am All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names