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Time to organise a Megasquirt-II Group Buy 

 

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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:52 pm 
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Waggin wrote:

With the sensor calibration, thats the same on most aftermarket ECU's, however finding calibration data, or trying to work out calibrations yourself isn't fun - hence buying a supported sensor is definantly the way to go


Which is what I was saying about them being a direct swap. Although you would only have to caibrate them once. Water temp sensors can be calibrated in freezing/boiling water, and air temp sensors can be done with a hairdrier and a thermocouple.

One other thing is when I was installing the datalogger, I accidently loaded up the TPS sensor too much (I think I drew 5mA out of it) and the EEC just killed the engine, nothing running. So I'm not sure how it will work with both the EEC and the MSII in parrallel. Ie. will the EEC continue to run the other functions, eg. thermofans, BBM etc?

 

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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:08 pm 
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Ok. I've just looked at pricing and I think I can solder people up a MS-II (that's with a MS-II kit) for around teh $500 mark including an extruded aluminium case.

If people want to go the MS-I and upgrade it will be a bit cheaper... about $50 cheaper, but then you've got the added cost of getting the MS-II daughterboard when they're available.

If people are ok with $500, I can confirm some shipping charges and start pretty much straight away. My only condition would be a deposit as I can't afford to fork out a few thousand for MS-I/II kits. Depending on what demand is like depends on what deposit I require and how long it would take for people to get them.

Also, if I were to start straight away, there would be no instant support from me as to the installation as I will never have done it on an EEC-IV/V by the time the kits arrive and start being soldered.

If you're interested, please post your interest here. Once I get an idea of numbers, I will make a firmer comitment on prices and deposits.
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:43 pm 
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Definate interest here uncle. However, timing must be in line with bonus from work... so I wouldnt be looking to expend anything until July/August...

 

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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:15 pm 
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I'm up for a $500 kit. VERY appealing.

For me it will be inline with the LPG install in the Fairmont (V8), since I've deemed the Tweecer/EEC-IV route too complicated and pricey as I only need to control spark'age

 

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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:42 pm 
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People, If you can use a soldering iron you will save a s**t load doing the work yourself. The kits are very cheap to purchase. Seriously anyone can solder, doesnt matter how retarded you are, its that easy!

MegaSquirt II isnt available until July/Ausgust by the way, they are currently out of stock.

 

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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:57 pm 
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South wrote:
People, If you can use a soldering iron you will save a s**t load doing the work yourself. The kits are very cheap to purchase. Seriously anyone can solder, doesnt matter how retarded you are, its that easy!

MegaSquirt II isnt available until July/Ausgust by the way, they are currently out of stock.


Anyone can rebuild an engine too. It's an EASY job to do if you know how. I'm not forcing people to go through me to get a MS-I/II. I'm offering my services, but I'm not going to do it for free which is fair enough.

That's my motivation. A little extra cash. In return you will get help from me in terms of tuning, installation and access to (hopefully) an extensive database of fuel and spark maps for your car which will basically tune it 99% in 5 mins instead of 3hrs. I am also quite happy to provide after sales service to people who would go through me.

Can I ask your motivation for trying to convince people not to go through someone like me and for-go the extra expertise and help I will be offering?

Also, if people get individual kits, individual cases, a stimulator to test their MS, and have to buy solder and a soldering iron, they could find themselves up for more than the price I'm offering. Plus if they're not confident and/or have never done it before, there's the chance of stuffing it up.
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:00 pm 
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Im just advising people that they can make the kit quite easily. You dont need to be an expert at soldering to be able to put it together. Instructions are easy to follow, and soldering onto a PCB is the easiest soldering one could imagine.

Just as an off topic, are you an electronics engineer? I am qualified in that profession.
A person with that vocation does not recieve the hourly rate you are attempting to charge for the construction of this device, ie basic construction. Fordmods is an association of persons with the same interest, trying to assist others with discounts and technical knowledge.

Im not having a go at YOU, just the cost you are trying to milk. I totally agree you shouldnt have to do it for free, but the price you have come up with seems a bit suss to me. Considering the technical information is found on the forums that everyone has access to.

Half the fun is making and tuning it yourself, for the others that arent able to do so, then by all means purchase from unclewoja, Im happy for anyone to do that, but be aware of the products cost and its ease of construction and utilisation in your vehicle.

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:20 am 
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Well, you might be an electronic engineer, but you obviously have no idea on business.

If you want I will slash my price, not test the equipment, not offer the case or the adaptor (whatever form it comes in). It will be a soldered up MS-I/II kit with nothing to protect it. The ownus of that will be upon the buyer. I will make no garuntee that it will work, I will not fix them if they don't work, I will not offer ANY support what-so-ever. I will not build up a databse of fuel and spark maps to assist people in their tuning efforts.

Like I said, that $500 was an estimate and I said I would sharpen the price once I confirm shipping charges. If you don't like the price, don't buy one. If you want to charge out your time @ $2/hr and solder them together, go right ahead.

You don't need to tell people it's a DIY ECU because they already know because I've already told them! Go check my posts if you wish. I was posting about the MS months ago and saying it was cheap and easy to make! Your motivation seems extremely suspicious. Add your hourly charge of $25/hr (or more probably if you really are an electronic engineer) and see what price you come up with.

So, you've got the choice. You can push the point, try and screw me down on price for something you're not even going to buy off me and risk me buggering off with all my offers, knowledge and limited expertise, there by hindering other people's efforts, or you can shut up.
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:59 am 
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personally built with support for 500 i dont think is a bad price... its the 1000 that got me earlier.

whilst i agree that soldering is like using a computer (dirt easy and 99% of people CAN do it), people may not be comfortable with themselves, not have the time to do it, or just cbf.

perosnally i will build my own, but i say give it a go! people want to build their own, good on you, guts is good. if not, good on you, you quite possibly made the smart choice (and easier y a mile)

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:17 am 
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OK well before a s**t-fight breaks out, let's get back on topic...

So guys - what is your understanding of what is included in the kits? Putting a few comments ive read around the place into context - all the MS guys sell is the PCB and a list of components - which you then source yourself.. is this accurate?

Surely a 2bbar MAP sensor isnt the easiest thing to locate?

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:38 am 
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You get the MS partial kit from Bowling&Grippo. This includes the PCB, processor, the MAP sensor, the FET driver. All the other parts are either available locally, or you can get them from the states from a place called digi-key.

I would reccomend getting them from the states. The order form is all pre-done and all you need to do is tell them how many kit's you're buying. The order form will calculate what quantities of everything you need. It is a little more expensive (because of shipping), but some things are hard to get at your local jaycar and a lot of the Aussie MSers have found that they have to go to digikey anyway to get some of the components.

Also, if I were to solder these kits up, they would have a second MAP sensor for realtime barometric correction. So if you decide to take you Falcon up to the top of Mt Kosiosko, it will run sweet all the way to the top and the EGO sensor won't have a heart attack. Otherwise, when you nail it and you're in open loop, the engine will be running very lean.

The previous estimate of $1000 included a Wideband O2 sensor and controller and was based on the price i payed when I got my first kit. Obviously, with the exchange rate stronger than it was, and with no duty anymore, the price has come down a fair bit.

Another thing I should point out also. If one person orders their kit it will most likely get through customs without having to pay GST. Everything I have ever ordered from the states has been of little value and has never been charged G.S.T. However, if someone like me were to order 10 kits in one hit, the value would be more than enough to attract the GST. So the cost (excluding the shipping) would be 10% higher than other peoples'.

Another thing that has to be considered is the time frame that will be taken between now and ordering kits. If this goes on 3 months before we finally make a decision and Bush decides go hunt another one of his white whales, then obviously the price will change.
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:44 am 
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unclewoja wrote:
Also, if I were to solder these kits up, they would have a second MAP sensor for realtime barometric correction. So if you decide to take you Falcon up to the top of Mt Kosiosko, it will run sweet all the way to the top and the EGO sensor won't have a heart attack. Otherwise, when you nail it and you're in open loop, the engine will be running very lean.



Great - thanks for clearing that up.

Also, i was reading that MSII is able to take absolute baro readings with key on/engine off and update absolute baro pressure at WOT... that's funky..

So you've built one before?

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:54 am 
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4.9 EF Futura wrote:
Great - thanks for clearing that up.

Also, i was reading that MSII is able to take absolute baro readings with key on/engine off and update absolute baro pressure at WOT... that's funky..

So you've built one before?


MS-I and MS-II both have baro correction. It samples the manifold pressure @ ingition on before the engine starts and adjusts the fuel maps by leaning them for atmospheric pressure higher that 1013kPA and richening them for atmospheric pressure lower than 1013kPa.

The new feature that MS-II offers that MS-I doesn't offer is the ability to use a second MAP sensor to make constant baro corrections instead of just one at start-up.

Yes, I have built one before.

I was also talking to a friend last night about this, if people want to go through me he will be helping me, and we were discussing wether it would be possible to modify a megaview to accept the speeds signal and modify the code to turn it into a trip computer. If we could do this, we would also try to adapt it to the Ford trip computer, i.e pull all the guts out of them and glue a megaview into the trip computer face plate.
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:08 pm 
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I have ordered the complete kit from glensgarage.com.

You get the B&G MS1 partial kit, all the components for the board and a case. US$140 +US$15 for shipping to Aus.

I am using all E-Series sensors and outputs so I will have all the information you guys will need RE downloading different sensors to the MS.

My advice is try and do as much as you can yourself, you'll learn a heap and be a better tech for it. Get Uncle to build the kit if you can afford it and are petrified of soldering irons.

Guys in Adelaide, if you want we can all get together when mine is operational and you can ask questions and see how it works. Then I'll help you build yours, like a weekend workshop sort of thing. The more the merrier.

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:25 pm 
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raiki wrote:
I have ordered the complete kit from glensgarage.com.

You get the B&G MS1 partial kit, all the components for the board and a case. US$140 +US$15 for shipping to Aus.

I am using all E-Series sensors and outputs so I will have all the information you guys will need RE downloading different sensors to the MS.

My advice is try and do as much as you can yourself, you'll learn a heap and be a better tech for it. Get Uncle to build the kit if you can afford it and are petrified of soldering irons.

Guys in Adelaide, if you want we can all get together when mine is operational and you can ask questions and see how it works. Then I'll help you build yours, like a weekend workshop sort of thing. The more the merrier.


That is a very, very good price. I can't find any info on the site regarding wether or not the case is suitable for the MS-II daughterboard. Last thing you want is to find out you can't upgrade to MS-II without a new case.

If that is suitable for MS-II, and if people want to go through me, I'll get the kits from glensgarage, although since they're a MS-I kit, there will be the additional cost of $US77 to upgrade to MS-II when it's available.
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