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 Post subject: [DELETED-irrelevant]
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:01 pm 
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:28 pm 
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i'd read all that but still putting dash back in car!

ill say this quickly but, you have to get it all checked and verified for leaks etc when ur done, lines and all arent that easy to run if u dont know how etc.. i'd get someone to do it personally, but ifu know how go for it!

ill read that after again and post properly and give u info lol
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:14 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: My LPG conversion (EF)
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:31 pm 
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blackjack_original wrote:
I've been thinking about the electrical side of things. What do i need to do? Obviously i still need the ECU to controll timing and the transmission, so just cutting power to it isn't going to work. Would cutting power to the injectors and the fuel pump work? This was what i was gonna do originally, but than someone mentioned i need some computer box to lie to the ECU.... my question is why? I've also decided to use the dual fuel ECU, with this the computer needs to know the car is running on LPG so it does the timing adjustments accordingly.... How do you tell this to the ecu? is it a simple matter of connecting a coupla pins or something? And finally, i wanted to wire in a few pressure sensors in the system, something like, if pressure drops bellow a certain level in the lines, LED's go off in the cabin... anyone have an idea for this? anyway, i'll update next week after i check out the wreckers for stuff.
I've only just fitted an installation to my wagon - I bought the kit from a good friend of mine who is a qualified installer and he advised me what to do and inspected what I'd done. This method didn't save me much on installation costs - although I wanted to DIY for my knowledge.
A few pointers:
1. If you're going to source an installation, it would be easier to get one that is complete, sourcing individual items is too much ginning around.
2. Worry about doing this first - installation details come later.
3. Do your own research - the principle of operation is pretty much the same on all vehicles, obviously carby and EFI installs are different - do a google search and find dedicated sites and have a read to familiarise yourself, find some circuit diagrams to download. You'll also learn more on what to look for when sourcing an installation.
4. Even new kits don't have comprehensive instructions, so I was glad to have my installer friend's 30 yr knowledge to draw on.
5. I did find while doing the electrical work, some excellent locations to put electrical components, I only needed about 3 wires to go out into the engine bay - so I can advise there.
6. It is a choice between having the time or the money (about $1400 - $2000). One thing I did find - having access to a car hoist to raise the car to install the line from the tank to engine bay was certainly a big advantage . . . . .

 

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97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: My LPG conversion (EF)
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:49 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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blackjack_original wrote:
Ok people, i'll be using this thread to ask questions and post updates on my DIY lpg conversion. Now i was gonna do this weeks ago, but f**k waking up at 3 in the afternoon doesn't leave much time for anything. So anyway, i had a convertor and a mixer and a tank organised ages ago, but yeah, like i said i never got around to picking them up so lord knows if they are still available. Well, at least i know the tank won't be a problem. Maybe i'll post in the wanted section later. Anyway, mechanical side of things is not bothering me. I've been thinking about the electrical side of things. What do i need to do? Obviously i still need the ECU to controll timing and the transmission, so just cutting power to it isn't going to work. Would cutting power to the injectors and the fuel pump work? This was what i was gonna do originally, but than someone mentioned i need some computer box to lie to the ECU.... my question is why? I've also decided to use the dual fuel ECU, with this the computer needs to know the car is running on LPG so it does the timing adjustments accordingly.... How do you tell this to the ecu? is it a simple matter of connecting a coupla pins or something? And finally, i wanted to wire in a few pressure sensors in the system, something like, if pressure drops bellow a certain level in the lines, LED's go off in the cabin... anyone have an idea for this? anyway, i'll update next week after i check out the wreckers for stuff.

Hey BlackJack, you need a certified gas fitter to sign off and add a compliance plate, but you should be able to do most yourself. Be aware that there are clearance distances from hot objects that need to be met with the gas lines. Also the filler entry to tank needs to be vented to the atmosphere but also sealed from the interior of the car / boot. It would pay to find your fitter first and quiz him before you start. Electronics, if you get the dual fuel ECU then it cuts the injector pulses when on LPG, down side is no Trip Computer when on LPG. Otherwise a relay in line with the injector power will do. Don't worry about the pump let it run, it would be running anyway on petrol. Because the car originally had / has an ECU, ADR requires the gas system to have closed loop operation requiring an ECU for the LPG system. You will need an ECU for this , the dual fuel ECU for EF works in conjunction with the Vialle ECU for the Gas side. The Dual fuel ECU is only for AUTO's afaik, if you are manual then you need to trick the ECU. There are 4 Auto modes in this ECU 2 for petrol (ECO and Power) and a different 2 for LPG.
Hope this gives you a start.
Cheers
TW.

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:14 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:02 am 
Getting Side Ways
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A reminder once again, if you live in a rented houseand somehow rupture the gas line and end up with gas spraying out of it, dont go inside for a cup of coffee and a smoke while you ponder how to fix it.
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:05 pm 
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:08 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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blackjack_original wrote:
Yeah, i'll check for leaks with a match... :D
Ok, bit of an update. I spoke to a gas fitter about some things. One of which is using the convertor and the mixer out of my ZL. He said that i can't use the mixer, and the convertor is probbably coroded inside. Looking at the converter, i don't think so, so this saves me a few bucks. Than, after i did some digging i found that a few members here use the same mixer as mine on their EF's. Basically what i have is the impco L series converter, and the impco 200 mixer. Now the mixer might be a bit small, but considering that a few members seem to pull over 100+rwkw with theirs, my completley stock EF should find it adequate. Thoughts? If i can use these, than i'm only an ECU, a tank + lines away from my dual fuel system.


Blackjack, I dont know if this is rumour or true however I believe that all LPG installations in the past few years must run a closed loop LPG mixture management system, unless the LPG mixer and converter is of this type, it may be worth making a few calls to LPG installers to find out if what I think is right, is actually right.
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:16 pm 
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:29 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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blackjack_original wrote:
that is right.... but it leaves me a bit confused. I guess closed loop doesn't mean what i think it means.....
Anyway, i'm not thinking quite straight ATM, i just "obtained" a defect on my other car.

Closed loop for LPG in its simplest form is dedicated ECU with at least an O2 sensor as its input and an output which is used to control the LPG vapour content. Most have inputs for TPS or a Tach to anticipate more demand on the LPG supply. The Vialle system has both these inputs and a program to workout when to richen the mixture to keep the CAT alive and also reduce the Backfire likeyhood.
Cheers
TW.

 

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GQ XR6T ghia patrol.

,======o00o
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_( o ) )_____( o ) )=o=) )__

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