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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:09 am 
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:00 am 
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...Your talkinga bout pinging, and I sincerely doubt that you are getting pinging at start up.. it mostly happens under load.

But going by what you say, yes the ECU detects the knocking, and then retards the timing.. advancing up to the where you set it again, until it pings, until it learns. But a knock sensor is good but doesn't work aswell as most people would like it too, don't trust it. If you can hear pinging, then back the timing off. Otherwise you'll be hunting for a new engine.


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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:40 pm 
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I havent seen any documentation on the EF knock sensor setup, but I have been told that they will only retard timing. The ECU doesnt advance until it hears knock then stops like many people believe. The sensor is there as a safety margin and not to retune the car. This makes sense because otherwise if the knock sensor were to fail the ecu would keep advancing the timing which would destroy the enigne.

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:42 pm 
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..yeah, the ECU does not advance the timing up until it knocks.. thats silly. But it does retard it instantly retards the SPOUT signal on a knock signal until the knock is gone.



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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:01 pm 
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justfordima wrote:
If you can hear pinging, then back the timing off.


justfordima wrote:
But it does retard it instantly retards the SPOUT signal on a knock signal until the knock is gone.


Im guessing by his sig that he has an EF, no dizzy means you cant adjust the timing manually.

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:03 pm 
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I see... so to advance timing on an EF, you flog it? lol!

In that case, I really don't think it has anything to do with your timing.


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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:12 pm 
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Pretty sure the spark maps would have a maximum amount of timing dialled into them. Knock sensor is like a modifier - i.e. EEC will apply the timing advance relevant to that load point, unles its getting feedback from the knock sensor...

Few points to note - the maximum spark dialled in would most likely be tuned for 91 octane.

Pinging is *almost* impossible at idle with no load on the engine. If it's pinging off idle (particualrly with cold start/warmup enrichments) then you've got massive massive problems.

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:32 pm 
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Thats it. The only way to advance the timing in a EF is with chip.

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:26 pm 
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:21 pm 
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Yes, but the ECU will only ever advance the timing to a certain point. And i would bet my hard earned that, seeing as ford never recommended using premium unleaded, these maximums have been set to suit 91 RON.

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:44 pm 
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blackjack_original wrote:
why when you're running a dual fuel EF, (non tickford) and when you've been running on gas for a while, when you switch to petrol again, it pings for a bit... (i've heard this from a few people)


Could be lots of reasons other than timing. Maybe if the fuel system has been doing nothing for a while it might get clogged up causing it to run a little lean for a while. The spark plugs might also be hotter after running lpg which will cause pinging if you switch to fuel and stomp on the throttle.

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:21 pm 
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Ok. here's the official word out of the manual about the knock sensor.

A knock sensor is fitted to the engine to sense the onset of engine knock and return this info ot the EEC-V module. The EEC-V module can then adjust the timing appropriately.
The knock sensor is fitted to the engine block, next to number 5 cyl, under the inlet manifold.
The knock sensor is a piezo crystal, tuned to a frequency of 7.5kHz. The sensor has a bandwidth of about 600Hz, and this improves its response and reliability.

If engine speed is below 4500 RPM and load is above 50%, EEC will 'listen' for knocking. When the sensor 'hears' setonation in the engine, EEC retards the timing at each PIP signal until the knocking stops. Each step is about 1-2deg, depending on the current engine speed and load. When the knock stops, EEC will start ramping up the advance in steps of 1/4deg at each PIP signal until the knock starts again. This allows the engine to operate with maximum advance, limited by the speed and load, the octane rating of the fuel and the engine condition, to give maximum engine performance.

And the pic below shows what happens.

 

 

Attachments:
timing.jpg
timing.jpg [ 26.21 KiB | Viewed 75 times ]

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:24 pm 
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My take on how the EECV works is they have a base set of maps which it always uses, there will be different modification values, like intake temp and engine/water temp, oxygen sensor and also knock sensor. When the car is cold, ie. cold water temp, the fuel maps will be richened up buy say 5% to act as a chock, until the car has reached operating temp. There will also be similar adjustments with the air temp for fuel and I would imagine it would also retard the timing when it is getting a hot air temp reading. The knock sensor would retard the timing a small degree until it stops senescing the pinging, I would not believe that this would be a permanent setting, but just temporary one. It also has a small percentage (5-10%) it can working in. I can grantee that the knock sensor wont effect the starting of your car, As the timing is set to 10deg for starting, which wont even cause pinging on a car running at full throttle with 15psi of boost going into it. Also the knock sensor will measure a whole load of knocking sounds as the motor is been cranked over, so I would say it would be disabled for that time.

If I’m wrong about the knock sensor and how it adjust timing (which someone will probably tell me I am :) ) your best bet to get the most advanced timing out of the ECU would be to reset it, and then drive with the 96 octane fuel..

Lastly, if you ask me, I would worry about putting 96 octaine fuel in your car to make it go a bit quicker, just bit the bullet and turbo it.. Check out this group buy for a cheap price on a turbo manifold… :D http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21353

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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:59 pm 
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:08 pm 
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I've gota get me one of those manuals...

Blackjack, how many K's are you getting from a tank??
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