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Use of Unleaded + 10% Ethanol in EF 

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:09 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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GTENVY wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
disadvanteges... ethanol draws moisture out of the air and into your fuel.
it corrodes metal (your fuel lines and the inside of you injectors are metal.
it makes plastic go brittle and perishes rubber.
there is less engergy in ethanol

the Stoichiometric ratio of petrol is 14.7:1 and for E10 is 14:1 E20 13.5:1
pure ethanol is close to 8:1

so there is less energy in it and you need to use more of it!!!!!!

advantages.... havn't found any yet


Big Big advantage - ethanol can be made, oil can't be. Cars can be made to run well with lower energy fuels, in the states unleaded is only 86 RON and they still manage to get big horsepower from it. Just like LPG the technology just needs to be developed.


The new Dodge viper (can't remember the name of it) creates a massive... wait for it... 500HP from 8000CC of engine. WEAK! Americans can't get lots of power out of engines because they're stuck in their ways. *cough* bush *cough* Their motto always has been, and always will be "You can't beat cubic inches"

Modern technology is proving them wrong. I can get 500HP quite comfortably out of 5.0L of Rover V8, still have the engine tractable for road use, and that engine's 50 years old now. So, if I can get 500HP NA out of a 50 year old 2 valve per cylinder engine, 500HP out of a modern 8.0L engine is pathetic.

The yanks should be able to quite comfortably get 800HP out of 8.0L and they can't. Give that engine to Europeans or Japanese and they'll easily get 1000HP - 1200HP with a bit of super or turbo charging from a stock, mild factory tune. Hell, Going back to the Rover V8, there's a TR7 running round Adelaide with 650HP from a 3.5L V8. Same HP per Litre gives you almost 1500HP from 8.0L.
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Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:58 pm 
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unclewoja wrote:
GTENVY wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
disadvanteges... ethanol draws moisture out of the air and into your fuel.
it corrodes metal (your fuel lines and the inside of you injectors are metal.
it makes plastic go brittle and perishes rubber.
there is less engergy in ethanol

the Stoichiometric ratio of petrol is 14.7:1 and for E10 is 14:1 E20 13.5:1
pure ethanol is close to 8:1

so there is less energy in it and you need to use more of it!!!!!!

advantages.... havn't found any yet


Big Big advantage - ethanol can be made, oil can't be. Cars can be made to run well with lower energy fuels, in the states unleaded is only 86 RON and they still manage to get big horsepower from it. Just like LPG the technology just needs to be developed.


The new Dodge viper (can't remember the name of it) creates a massive... wait for it... 500HP from 8000CC of engine. WEAK! Americans can't get lots of power out of engines because they're stuck in their ways. *cough* bush *cough* Their motto always has been, and always will be "You can't beat cubic inches"

Modern technology is proving them wrong. I can get 500HP quite comfortably out of 5.0L of Rover V8, still have the engine tractable for road use, and that engine's 50 years old now. So, if I can get 500HP NA out of a 50 year old 2 valve per cylinder engine, 500HP out of a modern 8.0L engine is pathetic.

The yanks should be able to quite comfortably get 800HP out of 8.0L and they can't. Give that engine to Europeans or Japanese and they'll easily get 1000HP - 1200HP with a bit of super or turbo charging from a stock, mild factory tune. Hell, Going back to the Rover V8, there's a TR7 running round Adelaide with 650HP from a 3.5L V8. Same HP per Litre gives you almost 1500HP from 8.0L.


Here we go...
Well now that we're off topic now, lets see why the yanks don't produce 1000hp from 8.0l engine. One: driveability - how would the average joe thats got too much money handle a car with this much HP ???? Two: insurance costs - do you have any idea how much it would cost to insure a monster like that?? Three: sale price, to make HP costs money check the price any HP car that comes with a warranty and you won't find them cheap.

Anyway back on topic, I was just making a point that lower energy fuels can still have the capability to produce high horsepower. For example: previous and current model Mustang, 4.6l at 240kw, BA model XR8 5.4 at 260kw and American fuel is s**t compared to ours.
Just my 2c

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:08 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Also look at the popular hot rodding engine masters challenge. You call 700hp out of a aspirated 408 stroker clevland at 6500rpm on 86 RON fuel weak? What drugs are you on?
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:33 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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xcabbi wrote:
Also look at the popular hot rodding engine masters challenge. You call 700hp out of a aspirated 408 stroker clevland at 6500rpm on 86 RON fuel weak? What drugs are you on?


No I don't. In fact if you read my post, I stated quite clearly that the Brittish can get 500 N/A HP our of 5.0L of Rover V8. The same HP per litre ratio gives you 670Hp..... and the Rover engine will rev out to 8500RPM. Stick that in your pie hole you stupid Yanks.

What I call weak is 500HP out of 8.0L (488cubic inches). I'd much rather a 'supercar' with a lighter engine around the 4.0L - 5.0L or even smaller with some form of charging, to increase the handling characteristics of the car. A supercar is more than just straight line speed and unfortunately that's all the Yanks measure it by. They don't car if you can go round a corner...... because they're using and engine 3 times the weight and twice the capacity to go 3km/h faster.

Oh, and GTENVY, you'd better call up Bugatti and tell them no-one will buy their new 750kW, yes, 1000HP quad turbo W8 powered supercar because *sob* no-one can afford insurance *sob*.

By the way.... you can't buy a Viper without successfully completeing a driving course to train you to properly handle the power.

Back on topic though, Indy cars run ethanol. They don't seem to have a problem and before anyone says "Yeah, but that's racing" don't forget that virtually every single piece of modern technology in your car was born on the race track. Alternate fuels are no different.
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