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 Post subject: xf efi
Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:28 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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G'day

New to the whole efi thing so go easy on me.

Now that the carbied thing in my wagon has dropped its bundle its time to rebuild something else. I'm going down the efi road but i know nothing about it.
I want about 120rwkw out of the crossflow. The block itself is fairly standard, the head has had a slight port and polish.

What can i do with the ecu (apart from burn it)? Can a mega squirt msII help me out. I'm not planning on running any forced induction or anything like that on this motor.

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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:12 am 
Getting Side Ways
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you want EFI in an XF? :lol: either go through all the s**t of a later model EFI transplant, or go an aftermarket EFI system.... megasquirt is a good option IMO

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:49 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Thanks

Where do i get megasquirt? How hard would it be to run with the standard wiring loom.

Cheers

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:20 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Ok you might want to check the post I started on installing a MS. http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12656

And before you decide on getting one I'd suggest you sit down for a couple of hours and read through the doco's here http://www.megasquirt.info/index.html

This thing is DIY in a big way.... but all the info you need is out there if you know how to use it.. :roll:
So good luck on the decision making process...

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:30 pm 
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The easiest way it to install all the standard XF EFi hardware and then wire in a basic aftermerket ecu like a Microtech, EMS 4424, or Wolf 3D ver 3.

All those ecus range from ~$600 to 1100 dependant on condition. Event the most basic one tuned CORRECTLY will do a better job than the factory efi setup.
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:16 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Thanks guys

I checked out the mega squirt info page. Very informative? I understand that this is a large scale project but i gota start learning somewhere.
My next question is: How far can i go with the modifications?

Will what i said at the top of the page (120rwkw) be possible with mega squirt.

Cheers

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:58 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Bert wrote:
Even the most basic one tuned CORRECTLY will do a better job than the factory efi setup.

a midget with a watering can full of petrol could do the job better than the stock setup

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:43 pm 
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I personally would not attempt the megasquirt unless you are proficent with the soldering iron. Its not that hard to lift the tracks of the board if you don't know how to solder properly apart from making a total mess.

IMO you would be better off with a Microtech. Very easy to wire and moderately easy to tune. If you know what you are doing you can install one less than 6 hours and tune it fairly close in 3 hours.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:19 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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I'm also going down the MS road, but have already converted a Panel van to EEC-IV.

It's not a trivial task, but it's not rocket science either - especially if you use a donor car that is already injected.

To convert using standard Ford parts, you will need (as a minimum)

Fuel lines (no return in std XF)
Fuel pump (2 for XF wagon)
Factory service Manual (don't leave home without it!!)
Rocker cover
Injector rails, inlet, plenum, throttle body etc
Air box
ISC
vacuum lines
loom including relays etc
sensors (CLT, knock)
computer
fuel filter
TFI distributor



Megasquirt is a better option, but only attempt it if you have a high nerd factor - it's gonna be harder to build, but will outperform the Ford XF EEC-IV. THe XF has no O2 sensor so is open loop, EA and later used closed loop

I was toying with the idea of using an EA/EB EFI setup on the XF, as it would be a much better setup than the XF EEC-IV, but the MS just seemed like more fun (nerd factor = high)

Check this out for more info

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~davodos/Megasquirt.html
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:42 pm 
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r00fi

How long did it take you to do? Ive got all the bits except for the fuel lines and the fuel pump in the tank.
Did you change the fuel tank or just put in the fuel pump in the original tank.
How much of your ms conversion have you actually done.

Cheers

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:41 am 
Oompa Loompa
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I had the car off the road for ages and stripped it back for a full respray so I can't really tell you how long it took. It's something you could knock over in a few weekends if you've got a good workshop, all the bits and are handy on the tools and electrics.

I originally put an ED fuel pump in the standard XF panel van tank (it's a tricky operation) and built a DC to frequency converter for the fuel sender, however the sender never worked properly, so I modded the std XF sender assembly and now have VL pump under the car where the fuel filter would normally sit in an XF Ghia. It's not perfect (yet) but better than it was. The fuel filter is now in the engine bay.

It's a lot easier to do if you have a sedan or wagon, as the std parts bolt right in. I wasn't paying the top dollar for a XG/XH tank and pump and was a bit bit nervous about modding the actual tank - though this would be a better option.

The MS conversion is still on the bench. I was trying to fit the MS into an EEC-IV case but it won't work. I've now got a stripped EEC-IV and I'm using it as a kind of adaptor so I can use most of the std loom. When it's done I'll be posting the info on the MSEFI website. Probably in the next month or so.
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:08 pm 
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Thanks

The tanks the bit that has me a little stuffed at the moment. I'm not sure which way i want to go. It may be easier to just grab a tank from a efi wagon and use that. I think that i will get a new fuel pump from the start so that cant give me any trouble.

Am i correct in saying that there is only the one wiring loom from the computer going into the engine bay and the sensors?

Cheers

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:44 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Drivers side loom has all the body electrics

Pass side loom has EFI. The EFI crosses over to drivers side for conection to battery, relays, air box.

If you can get the original parts then use them. Be aware that the XF wagon uses 2 (TWO!) fuel pumps. High pressure to injectors and low pressure to feed high pressure. You might be able to use the single internal pump from a EA/B/D/F/L wagon but that's trial and error. It would be worth a try. The good thing about the wagon is you don't have to root around with the fuel gauge as it's not connected to the fuel pump. I don't know why Ford didn't put the HP pump in the XF wagon tank, but maybe that technology wasn't around when they built the XF or they got a really got deal from Bosch on external pumps :shock:

I'll harp back to my earlier post about having a Factory Ford manual. I know all this stuff because I studied the manual and looked at cars at the wreckers. I would not attempt this without the manual unless you know your EFI sh!t backwards. Manual go for as little as $20 on ebay. A Gregory's has a few goodies in the Ford manual leaves out, but overall is not nearly as good.
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:47 pm 
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Yep i got one of those 4 inch thick factory manuals. Very good reading. I knew that it had 2 pumps. Which pump does the megasquirt connect to?

Now that i have read the mega manual i have a couple of questions. The megasquirt has a map sensor that comes with it. Does this mean that i can get rid of the afr sensor in front of the throttle body on the air box and use this map sensor?
Do all of the standard ford sensors in the xf work with the megasquirt or do i need to get aftermarket stuff?

Because i'm rebuilding the engine, can megasquirt be set to have a setting that is specific to running the motor in?

My other question is: Is it going to be easier to convert the car to the original ford efi and then change to megasquirt or would it be easier to just use megasquirt from word go.

I think that it will be easier to start with the megasquirt straight away.

After reading the factory manual i see that the later model xf's had a knock sensor. Do i need the knock sensor for megasquirt or would it just be better.

Cheers

 

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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:42 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Pane wrote:
Which pump does the megasquirt connect to?

MS controls the fuel pump relay - which controls both pumps.

Pane wrote:
Now that i have read the mega manual i have a couple of questions. The megasquirt has a map sensor that comes with it. Does this mean that i can get rid of the afr sensor in front of the throttle body on the air box and use this map sensor?


Depends on whether you want to use the Ford air temp sensor or use a GM MAT.

Pane wrote:
Do all of the standard ford sensors in the xf work with the megasquirt or do i need to get aftermarket stuff?

Yes, but with some work - You'll need to read the MS manual and the forums.


Pane wrote:
Because i'm rebuilding the engine, can megasquirt be set to have a setting that is specific to running the motor in?

Sure, but running in an engine is more to do with your right foot....

Pane wrote:
My other question is: Is it going to be easier to convert the car to the original ford efi and then change to megasquirt or would it be easier to just use megasquirt from word go.

I think that it will be easier to start with the megasquirt straight away.


:? err, It would be easier to MS first, if thats the end solution, but it would be easier to EEC-IV than MS.

Pane wrote:
After reading the factory manual i see that the later model xf's had a knock sensor. Do i need the knock sensor for megasquirt or would it just be better.

The std MS has no knock sensor input. Maybe MSII does. Not sure. I seem to remember a MS knock sensor add-on somewhere.


You also need to integrate your ignition, so you need to decide whether to use TFI, points, hall, etc etc.

No one said it would be easy......
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