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12.5:1 hi comp build 

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:46 am 
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JayEdXr6 wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
JayEdXr6 wrote:

Okay but can I use the 7 mm valves with the normal looking springs. Why can't I have my head flowed for a certain cam? Isn't that what you do when you give your cam specs sheet to the porter ?
135lb springs are apparently efficient enough for 7200 rpm and 300 rwhp I've seen it!


If that is your best understanding of all this, then I honestly believe you shouldn't be building this engine yourself.


I'm not mate. How about a answer instead of smart comment, how'd you gain your knowledge? I bet it was asking questions.


I didn't gain it by trying to build a race engine the first time. Blew a couple of engines up along the way. These questions are better suited to your engine builder and if you don't trust his judgment you need to find a new one.

I've also answered this stuff over and over and over. But giving this sort of info to some one who doesn't even have a handle on the very basics is dangerous.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:13 am 
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Thankyou

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:56 pm 
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bry40l wrote:
cjh wrote:
A mate of mine has this done already.....12.5-13:1 CR. He bought a rod & piston set, can't remember the brand....it may have been JE and Scat rods.....anyway, he's got an EF Ticky head, found that some 308 Holden dual springs fit......needed for the huge cam.....will rev & pull past 7,000 rpm.....and it's all for speedway.
The rockers have been modified to be adjustable....no HLA's.....and the cam chain tensioner has also been modified, so it doesn't need oil pressure for it.
The cam is that big, that the valve springs will only last about 6 meetings.
It runs on 98 RON pump fuel too.

Good luck with your build.

How much power is he making?


Talked to him for a couple of minutes yesterday....they are ROSS pistons ( forged ) and Scat rods.
He did tell me a while back on his test engine how much it was making but I don't remember.
He's still running a test engine....No. 3 he's up to....... :lol:

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Okay well what I want to do is set up a full "hybrid" head, with the 41 mm exhaust valves but the 7 mm stem and the slightly larger ports then au( I thinks that's right) I have a xh head with the conical springs and small stems etc but it's got bad damage to the deck side. So I have a ef head that's in great condition (94ab). I know the rocker gear bolts straight up to the 94ab and I'm sure new valves with 7mm stem will go in.
So I guess I have 2 questions.
1)do I use 94ab springs and retainers? Or find other to suit??
2)to fit the smaller stem valve do I need to get the guides and seals to suit a au etc pressed in?

Also I was speaking to Chris from SRE engines who does a street stock bottom end with 9.5:1 comp
I asked about using a custom piston for a hi comp application. He said what we can do is use the AU intech piston and have 0 deck height and 60 thou off the head!!! Combined with the mls gasket he said expect around 11.4-11.7:1, that would be alot cheaper option but wouldnt that cause problems with chain slap ?? Or like piston hitting the head lol. He said he has done an still had enough room to fit a fairly big cam.

Please help me out on this I want to get this motor underway thanks guys

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:31 pm 
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cjh wrote:
bry40l wrote:
cjh wrote:
A mate of mine has this done already.....12.5-13:1 CR. He bought a rod & piston set, can't remember the brand....it may have been JE and Scat rods.....anyway, he's got an EF Ticky head, found that some 308 Holden dual springs fit......needed for the huge cam.....will rev & pull past 7,000 rpm.....and it's all for speedway.
The rockers have been modified to be adjustable....no HLA's.....and the cam chain tensioner has also been modified, so it doesn't need oil pressure for it.
The cam is that big, that the valve springs will only last about 6 meetings.
It runs on 98 RON pump fuel too.

Good luck with your build.

How much power is he making?


Talked to him for a couple of minutes yesterday....they are ROSS pistons ( forged ) and Scat rods.
He did tell me a while back on his test engine how much it was making but I don't remember.
He's still running a test engine....No. 3 he's up to....... :lol:


Thanks I really appreciate the effort I'll deffinatley look into it cheers

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:36 pm 
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acl do high comp pistons for the au motor.... just fit some of them, dont bother with decking the motor and head for compression when you can fit pistons, and dont order internal parts before you get the motor bored and honed, you wont know the correct sizes for parts until after its all done

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:28 pm 
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bry40l wrote:
acl do high comp pistons for the au motor.... just fit some of them, dont bother with decking the motor and head for compression when you can fit pistons, and dont order internal parts before you get the motor bored and honed, you wont know the correct sizes for parts until after its all done


Yer I realize that. I want more compression then your average acl rebuild so as I can run a bigger cam more efficiently. I don't want to rebuild my motor for the average 180 kws or so. Mines got only 5000 ks on it anyway haha

So the 0.00 deck height is a no no??

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:37 pm 
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JayEdXr6 wrote:
bry40l wrote:
acl do high comp pistons for the au motor.... just fit some of them, dont bother with decking the motor and head for compression when you can fit pistons, and dont order internal parts before you get the motor bored and honed, you wont know the correct sizes for parts until after its all done


Yer I realize that. I want more compression then your average acl rebuild so as I can run a bigger cam more efficiently. I don't want to rebuild my motor for the average 180 kws or so. Mines got only 5000 ks on it anyway haha

So the 0.00 deck height is a no no??

well i dont know if it will cause any problems but if you just shave everything down for compression i dont see the point when you can fit pistons that do it for you which leaves room for shaving the head if you ever need to redo the gasget or take it apart for some reason, and im sure theres more reasons like having a lose timing chain etc

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:13 pm 
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bry40l wrote:
JayEdXr6 wrote:
bry40l wrote:
acl do high comp pistons for the au motor.... just fit some of them, dont bother with decking the motor and head for compression when you can fit pistons, and dont order internal parts before you get the motor bored and honed, you wont know the correct sizes for parts until after its all done


Yer I realize that. I want more compression then your average acl rebuild so as I can run a bigger cam more efficiently. I don't want to rebuild my motor for the average 180 kws or so. Mines got only 5000 ks on it anyway haha

So the 0.00 deck height is a no no??

well i dont know if it will cause any problems but if you just shave everything down for compression i dont see the point when you can fit pistons that do it for you which leaves room for shaving the head if you ever need to redo the gasget or take it apart for some reason, and im sure theres more reasons like having a lose timing chain etc


Yer I can deffinatley understand that.
Imagine that haha 1000 buks on machining down the drain.
I have 5000 for a new bottom end so I guess I'll stick with pistons that have compression built in.

I've pulled the motor down and there's rust ontop of the 3 and 4 piston. Get it acid bathed and checked next week it looks bad hope its okay.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Definitely wouldn't be wise to go 0 deck height.

On the street engine I build I went for 15thou down the bore, to give total quench of 35thou with an AU gasket. This is the generally the minimum recommended clearance for street engines from both builders I've talked to and books I've read.

I haven't talked to builders regarding race engines, but I have definitely read anything less than 20thou between TDC and the head is bad news (reason being rod stretch/piston rock/thermal expansion/carbon build up...particularly when running high rpm).

If you want high compression flat tops or even dome/rised slugs are the way to go. I wouldn't go less than 35thou ever. If you're lucky tickford_6 might post again on the subject.

 

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Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:19 pm 
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skidder wrote:
Definitely wouldn't be wise to go 0 deck height.

On the street engine I build I went for 15thou down the bore, to give total quench of 35thou with an AU gasket. This is the generally the minimum recommended clearance for street engines from both builders I've talked to and books I've read.

I haven't talked to builders regarding race engines, but I have definitely read anything less than 20thou between TDC and the head is bad news (reason being rod stretch/piston rock/thermal expansion/carbon build up...particularly when running high rpm).

If you want high compression flat tops or even dome/rised slugs are the way to go. I wouldn't go less than 35thou ever. If you're lucky tickford_6 might post again on the subject.


Yer I can understand that completely. tickford_6 is wise I have read alot of his stuff and I trust what he says, but Instead of telling me I don't know s**t(which is deffinatley true in the scheme of things)he could correct me or maybe even suggest a better alternative, only if he is gonna go to the trouble of posting.

But watch this space because I promise rain or hale I will have a tuff as nutz n/a
With help lol

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:28 pm 
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why dont you just rebuild another bottom end with high comp pistons drop your existing head on it and go from there with a different cam? Its already ported etc..
Also why arent you happy with 180 odd kw

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:54 pm 
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bry40l wrote:
why dont you just rebuild another bottom end with high comp pistons drop your existing head on it and go from there with a different cam? Its already ported etc..
Also why arent you happy with 180 odd kw


Yer that's an option. It's a good head. The only reason I was gonna keep the engine whole is to sell to a mate for a few grand. But it is a good head and a great starting point.
180kw is a good number from a n/a 6. But I have a mostly disposable income and I want something that stands out! The process of the engine is just as fun as driving it haha.

But seriously, just because I want more

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:58 am 
Getting Side Ways
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JayEdXr6 wrote:
bry40l wrote:
why dont you just rebuild another bottom end with high comp pistons drop your existing head on it and go from there with a different cam? Its already ported etc..
Also why arent you happy with 180 odd kw


Yer that's an option. It's a good head. The only reason I was gonna keep the engine whole is to sell to a mate for a few grand. But it is a good head and a great starting point.
180kw is a good number from a n/a 6. But I have a mostly disposable income and I want something that stands out! The process of the engine is just as fun as driving it haha.

But seriously, just because I want more

if you have a disposable income...give me some money!! :)

 

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 Post subject: Re: 12.5:1 hi comp build
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:19 am 
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bry40l wrote:
JayEdXr6 wrote:
bry40l wrote:
why dont you just rebuild another bottom end with high comp pistons drop your existing head on it and go from there with a different cam? Its already ported etc..
Also why arent you happy with 180 odd kw


Yer that's an option. It's a good head. The only reason I was gonna keep the engine whole is to sell to a mate for a few grand. But it is a good head and a great starting point.
180kw is a good number from a n/a 6. But I have a mostly disposable income and I want something that stands out! The process of the engine is just as fun as driving it haha.

But seriously, just because I want more

if you have a disposable income...give me some money!! :)


Haha nah I'll just stick to building an engine thanks

 

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