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190rwkw for ef possible? 

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:09 pm 
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you know what the go is with mine. The cam going into that has 280 at .50. you should consider a good balance so you can spin it up higher. Power is a figure of rpm and torque.

You realisticly are looking at custom cam territory, nobody makes a cam that will work perfictly for you 190 is big power territory na for these things. We have done the maths on the computer program at the race shop and from what we figure on inertia weights on my internals, which are a fair bit lighter than stock, 7500rpm is very safe, 8000 is getting there for a race build, and self distruction, according to the computer is at 9100. :)

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:37 pm 
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From memory the wade 977B cam makes more power & torque in the mid range than the wade 1521a cam but makes the same power at peak.
FordFairmont has used both cams & from memory he put the 977B cam back in his engine.
According to Keith at wade the 1521a cam is a turbo cam.
The cam i would be considering is the CamTech Cam stage 4 with 248 at .050 & 602 lift.
That cam should power at 7000rpm & with a tight lobe seperation at 108 it will come on very strong with a rough idle. 8-) 8-) 8-)

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:18 pm 
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xr6eat 50 wrote:
you know what the go is with mine. The cam going into that has 280 at .50. you should consider a good balance so you can spin it up higher. Power is a figure of rpm and torque.

You realisticly are looking at custom cam territory, nobody makes a cam that will work perfictly for you 190 is big power territory na for these things. We have done the maths on the computer program at the race shop and from what we figure on inertia weights on my internals, which are a fair bit lighter than stock, 7500rpm is very safe, 8000 is getting there for a race build, and self distruction, according to the computer is at 9100. :)



I've spent hours and hour and hours with engine simulators fine tuning the mystical 200rwkw AKA 400hp at the fly engine. Based on a stock stroke and a 1mm over bore the lowest i could get the peak power was 7000rpm. Mind you we are talking big dollars to actually build that engine.

you need to be careful throwing number around like that. People may get the impression you are saying 7500rpm is 'safe' (i hate that word in regards to engines) for a factory components.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:07 pm 
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What i don't understand is why a crossflow can make 200rwkws at 5500-6000rpm and the ohc can't.. the only differences are the head and where the cam is.. people just don't seem to be going wild enough with these cams..
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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:09 pm 
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its all the ecu, needs to be more time spent in that part i think

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:07 pm 
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Waggen wrote:
What i don't understand is why a crossflow can make 200rwkws at 5500-6000rpm and the ohc can't.. the only differences are the head and where the cam is.. people just don't seem to be going wild enough with these cams..



Taken from an other forum i use.

Quote:
Postby xrglen » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:08 am
i have just finished my 365hp x-flow and it is easy and cheap. you dont need triple webbers, just common parts.
i used a crow 244@50" solid cam, cain inlet, 650dp carb, and a head that was only hand ported with no flow bench and got 340hp on avgas with 12.56 comp.
now my new motor has a head that flows 36cfm more and 200 conrods, el crank and the same cam and this runs on 98 fuel with nulon octane booster for its 11.4:1 comp. this motor pulls hard from 2600rpm and stops pulling at 5900rpm.
my old motor still holds the state record for quickest street rego 6 cyl with a 12.16@110.5mph set at ravenswood raceway back in 1999 in a cortina with stock clutch, single rail and cig 3.7 diff.
now with more power im going for 11s in a lightened XE falcon which now weighs 1180kg.
all this and i didnt have to buy a turbo, modified manifolds, injectors, hi pressure fuel pumps, computer and hours of dyno time to set up.and its very streetable and drives great.
if you want more engine specs just reply and i will be more than happy to help you out. cheers


what i dont understand is how you can think a crossflow will make 400hp@5500rpm.
IT JUST WONT HAPPEN ON PETROL.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:34 pm 
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Here's some info on the Hoppers Express head

Quote:
the head has 12 new valves,
inlet valves are std size the ex valves are .5mm bigger head size (
tickford ex valves) the springs are HD seat pressure 100 - 110 ft/lbs, the
head is machined down to 105.00mm

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:55 pm 
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the valves are only tickford size? doubt it would make that even with the porting done and a 1636 which comes with the head

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:20 am 
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That head with that cam would be lucky to push 140rwkw thru a manual.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:37 am 
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Power: 162 rwkw

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yes 190 is possible..

i hit 170 with my el xr (on a dyno dynamics dyno)
CMS stage 3 cam with vernier gear
CMS stage 2 head
3" intake pipe, filter, CAI
Au injectors
Extractors, cat, 2.5" exhaust
68mm throttle body
std XR valves
std ecu
std bottom end

with more head work, a decent ecu with custom tune and high comp bottom end, 190rwkw is more than achievable with the right gear...

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:12 pm 
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FAST-XR wrote:
with more head work, a decent ecu with custom tune and high comp bottom end, 190rwkw is more than achievable with the right gear...


You talk about it as though it's a walk in the park; if it was that simple everyone would be getting decent figures and not stuck around 150rwkw and mid 14's (look at the vast majority).

I'm not saying you aren't correct, but that is a ridiculously simplified view of something that is very complex.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:13 pm 
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its not a walk in the park, but its achievable

when you talk about most people maxing out at 150 rwkw, its because its their weekend hobby, playing with simple bolt on performance, over a period of time. parts from here parts and from there.... air intakes, cams, exhausts, etc. that how i did it, and how most members do their mods, part by part

most people are getting stuck at around 150rwkw, because they are still running std ecu's and std bottom ends. and have more than likely done 200,000km on these motors

the cars running well thought out mods that have been properly setup are hitting 160-170 rwkw without any bottom end or ecu mods

if you have the cash to do both of these things properly, then yes you can get there. the limiting factor here is cash, people are not prepared to spend that much on a car that is worth less than the mods, and then only to have a car that will just get into the 13s...

if you were serious about such figures you would go all out on a custom cam to suit the flow of a heavily modified head, a proper custom tuned aftermarket ecu, not an interceptor or J3 chip... a bored out, balanced, blue printed high comp bottom end that can achieve some more revs, and the list goes on...

would a custom tuned aftermarket ecu with a high comp bored out bottom end get me another 20rwkw? i think it would ... is spending somewhere in the range of 5k on such an exercise worth it, probably not... and probably the reason why not many people have done it...

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:03 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
xr6eat 50 wrote:
you know what the go is with mine. The cam going into that has 280 at .50. you should consider a good balance so you can spin it up higher. Power is a figure of rpm and torque.

You realisticly are looking at custom cam territory, nobody makes a cam that will work perfictly for you 190 is big power territory na for these things. We have done the maths on the computer program at the race shop and from what we figure on inertia weights on my internals, which are a fair bit lighter than stock, 7500rpm is very safe, 8000 is getting there for a race build, and self distruction, according to the computer is at 9100. :)



I've spent hours and hour and hours with engine simulators fine tuning the mystical 200rwkw AKA 400hp at the fly engine. Based on a stock stroke and a 1mm over bore the lowest i could get the peak power was 7000rpm. Mind you we are talking big dollars to actually build that engine.

you need to be careful throwing number around like that. People may get the impression you are saying 7500rpm is 'safe' (i hate that word in regards to engines) for a factory components.



point noted! 7500 is safe if you do the work on the bottom end, the rod and piston combo that those numbers are made off are heaps lighter and stronger than the stock stuff. All custom forged items. If you were to try and rev stock internals or even mild uppgraded stuff there it will be a dissaster.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:43 pm 
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To be honest everyone has different things that works and doesnt work .
Ive seen 3 or 4 different combos get up to 175kw .

Ive never seen more than 180kw for a na sohc on a dyno
ive seen a dohc get 196rwkw. That was over in sa at a kpm dyno day

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:41 pm 
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throw a combo at me

 

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