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190rwkw for ef possible? 

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:12 pm 
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{USERNAME} wrote:
with more head work, a decent ecu with custom tune and high comp bottom end, 190rwkw is more than achievable with the right gear...


You talk about it as though it's a walk in the park; if it was that simple everyone would be getting decent figures and not stuck around 150rwkw and mid 14's (look at the vast majority).

I'm not saying you aren't correct, but that is a ridiculously simplified view of something that is very complex.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:13 pm 
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its not a walk in the park, but its achievable

when you talk about most people maxing out at 150 rwkw, its because its their weekend hobby, playing with simple bolt on performance, over a period of time. parts from here parts and from there.... air intakes, cams, exhausts, etc. that how i did it, and how most members do their mods, part by part

most people are getting stuck at around 150rwkw, because they are still running std ecu's and std bottom ends. and have more than likely done 200,000km on these motors

the cars running well thought out mods that have been properly setup are hitting 160-170 rwkw without any bottom end or ecu mods

if you have the cash to do both of these things properly, then yes you can get there. the limiting factor here is cash, people are not prepared to spend that much on a car that is worth less than the mods, and then only to have a car that will just get into the 13s...

if you were serious about such figures you would go all out on a custom cam to suit the flow of a heavily modified head, a proper custom tuned aftermarket ecu, not an interceptor or J3 chip... a bored out, balanced, blue printed high comp bottom end that can achieve some more revs, and the list goes on...

would a custom tuned aftermarket ecu with a high comp bored out bottom end get me another 20rwkw? i think it would ... is spending somewhere in the range of 5k on such an exercise worth it, probably not... and probably the reason why not many people have done it...

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:03 pm 
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{USERNAME} wrote:
{USERNAME} wrote:
you know what the go is with mine. The cam going into that has 280 at .50. you should consider a good balance so you can spin it up higher. Power is a figure of rpm and torque.

You realisticly are looking at custom cam territory, nobody makes a cam that will work perfictly for you 190 is big power territory na for these things. We have done the maths on the computer program at the race shop and from what we figure on inertia weights on my internals, which are a fair bit lighter than stock, 7500rpm is very safe, 8000 is getting there for a race build, and self distruction, according to the computer is at 9100. :)



I've spent hours and hour and hours with engine simulators fine tuning the mystical 200rwkw AKA 400hp at the fly engine. Based on a stock stroke and a 1mm over bore the lowest i could get the peak power was 7000rpm. Mind you we are talking big dollars to actually build that engine.

you need to be careful throwing number around like that. People may get the impression you are saying 7500rpm is 'safe' (i hate that word in regards to engines) for a factory components.



point noted! 7500 is safe if you do the work on the bottom end, the rod and piston combo that those numbers are made off are heaps lighter and stronger than the stock stuff. All custom forged items. If you were to try and rev stock internals or even mild uppgraded stuff there it will be a dissaster.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:43 pm 
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To be honest everyone has different things that works and doesnt work .
Ive seen 3 or 4 different combos get up to 175kw .

Ive never seen more than 180kw for a na sohc on a dyno
ive seen a dohc get 196rwkw. That was over in sa at a kpm dyno day

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:41 pm 
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throw a combo at me

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:58 pm 
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i've only seen, with my own eyes, a couple of E-Series pull the 100+mph passes that 170ish+rwkw power should be achieving.
STOKEB was one, on an n/a pass, with slicks and c-series box from memory did 102mph? (this is a long time ago), another one 'RIPUR8' that used to get around that did a high 13 @ 101mph.
Both of those cars have/had JMM parts (expensive and jim is a C***, but hey, they actually work...)

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:28 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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{USERNAME} wrote:
I've spent hours and hour and hours with engine simulators fine tuning the mystical 200rwkw AKA 400hp at the fly engine. Based on a stock stroke and a 1mm over bore the lowest i could get the peak power was 7000rpm.



couldnt by any chance throw a link to one of these programs? would be fun to have a go at one.

I reckon a custom set of pistons (with supporting gear) around 98mm (4.5l) would be the go. If you cant send a link to one of these calc's, can you mess around with that number and see how it goes?

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:10 pm 
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{USERNAME} wrote:
{USERNAME} wrote:
Your talking about the Hoppers Heads Reco Head - pretty good value if it works

FORD EA - EL
FULL RECO HEAD
NEW OVERSIZE EXHAUST VALVES
NEW SPRINGS
PORTED
PERFORMANCE GROUND CAM (any wade cam)
$ 1095.00 inc. GST

Saw the add in Street Fords - Good Price for a claim of upto 175rwkw :)

Apparently 175rwkw was achieved in an EF Manual without a Modified ECU
Just Extractors and Exhaust :)
ACL Rebuild Bottom end though just to tighten it up.........

Tested Car had a Wade Cam - dunno what profile

{DESCRIPTION}


I've just sent them an email asking about valve sizes and flow figures for the head in that package.

I'f they can't/wont supply that info, i wouldn't be buying it


still no reply
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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:27 pm 
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{USERNAME} wrote:
To be honest everyone has different things that works and doesnt work .
Ive seen 3 or 4 different combos get up to 175kw .

Ive never seen more than 180kw for a na sohc on a dyno
ive seen a dohc get 196rwkw. That was over in sa at a kpm dyno day


I've seen 180.4rwkw, with more to come from this particular car, it has a baby cam. A bigger cam and a good tune and it will crack 190rwkw

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:36 pm 
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Goanna be a spoilsport here but we musn't forget that all dyno's are different when going for the glorious 190rwkw. :)
One may read 190 and another dyno may read 170. The proof is in the timeslip.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:59 pm 
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Just tossing in a few questions....

Would it be fair to say that a big cam is going to make an NA engine unsuitable for city driving? If the engine develops most of its horsepower in the top end, is it going to be a slug at slow speed and use heaps fuel?

Does the engine start to become more of race engine rather than a street engine?

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:01 pm 
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{USERNAME} wrote:
Goanna be a spoilsport here but we musn't forget that all dyno's are different when going for the glorious 190rwkw. :)
One may read 190 and another dyno may read 170. The proof is in the timeslip.

factor in the rest of it :D :D :D the car can be a 13 sec runner,but try to get it every time,every day :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:02 pm 
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{USERNAME} wrote:
Goanna be a spoilsport here but we musn't forget that all dyno's are different when going for the glorious 190rwkw. :)
One may read 190 and another dyno may read 170. The proof is in the timeslip.

factor in the rest of it :D :D :D the car can be a 13 sec runner,but try to get it every time,every day :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:17 pm 
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{USERNAME} wrote:
yes 190 is possible..

i hit 170 with my el xr (on a dyno dynamics dyno)
CMS stage 3 cam with vernier gear
CMS stage 2 head
3" intake pipe, filter, CAI
Au injectors
Extractors, cat, 2.5" exhaust
68mm throttle body
std XR valves
std ecu
std bottom end

with more head work, a decent ecu with custom tune and high comp bottom end, 190rwkw is more than achievable with the right gear...


i di have a high compression bottom end.. a unichip alos at one stage.. and saw a best of 176rwkw.. and a PB timeslip of 14.1 @97MPH.. 1.97 sixty footer on 15 inch rims.. street tyre's..
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 Post subject: Re: 190rwkw for ef possible?
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:12 am 
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thats true. but we saw that when we took off the unichip it made the same power, so i think the tune wasnt all that great. and your bottom end was going though oil like an old holden...

increased bore capacity with high compression and a well tuned quality ecu, can get you there

 

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