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250 EFI CONVERSION 

 

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 Post subject: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:32 pm 
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Hi all, has been a while since I posted. How are things. OK, a short summary. I have a 250 x-flow out of an XE in an old Aussie bulit Kaiser Jeep. Due to the shape of the body and already having a good engine in the car, I have gone down the route of putting an EA Falcon CFI unit on it. At the moment it idles sweet as you could hope for with any engine. The problems occur higher up the rev range.

At about 2000 revs the thing basically stops revving and pops and f@rt out the exhaust. Things on it that are brand new are as follows:
Rotor
Cap
TFI module
Plugs
Leads
MAP Sensor
Coil

It is an EST dizzy out of an XF and I mounted the TFI module remotely in a heat sink on the guard. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what it might be. I have eliminated any manifold leaks as the cause and am almost at a loss. The conversion will be worth it from a fuel consumption and offroad perspective.
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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:33 pm 
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two questions. why not just use an EA cfi dizzy with the crossflow gear on the bottom?

and for the effort why not fit Multi point injection?

 

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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:03 pm 
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The 250 efi gear will not physically fit in the body as the car was originally made for 4 cylinder engine. When they were assembled here, a cutout in the firewall was made to fit the back of the big 6 engine in. As for the later multipoint engines, I already had an engine in and certified. This is as much an exercise in me learning as well as improving how it runs. A later model engine may come at a later stage. I have gotten hold of a CFI EA dizzy, but as far as I can see it will not fit without some modification.

Additionally, I have tried it with the base timing set at both 6 and 10 degrees, doesn't make any difference at this point. The only thing I can think of, though don't know for certain is, maybe the signal for engine speed etc is different between the EA and XF dizzys. The XFs did run this distributor with the first of the EEC IV computers.
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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:24 pm 
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OK guys, thanks to hunting a bit more around this site, I have identified my ECU. It has a catch code of 0DDC which is apparently a series 2 EA with a 4 spd auto. Could the ECU somehow be limiting the revs because it needs some kind of feedback from the auto box?
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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:36 pm 
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Is the distributor off an EFI XF that originaly had the TFI module on the side, or is it definatly an EST that only had a black 3 pin plug.
The reason I ask is that the Pickup inside is in different positions between the 2.
The EFI one has the pickup located closer to the number 1 sparkplug terminal than the EST.

To check this take of the dizzy cap and there is a line cut into the dizzy body marking number 1 terminal.
From this line to the centre of the pickup it should measure one of the following:
EFI = 30mm
EST = 43mm

I had a very similar problem years ago.
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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:27 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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185el wrote:
The 250 efi gear will not physically fit in the body as the car was originally made for 4 cylinder engine. When they were assembled here, a cutout in the firewall was made to fit the back of the big 6 engine in. As for the later multipoint engines, I already had an engine in and certified. This is as much an exercise in me learning as well as improving how it runs. A later model engine may come at a later stage. I have gotten hold of a CFI EA dizzy, but as far as I can see it will not fit without some modification.

Additionally, I have tried it with the base timing set at both 6 and 10 degrees, doesn't make any difference at this point. The only thing I can think of, though don't know for certain is, maybe the signal for engine speed etc is different between the EA and XF dizzys. The XFs did run this distributor with the first of the EEC IV computers.



People have been using XF carby dizzies with EA-AU gears on them in OHC engines with carbs or straight LPG, so it should work back the other way. it would eliminate any possible problems there.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:52 pm 
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The EA cfi dizzy uses a different rotor to the others. It has one wide gap in the rotor and 5 normal sized ones. I know if you put a cfi dizzy in a mpi engine or vice versa it can cause problems. Not sure bout your application tho
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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:57 am 
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Reading the book it says that the FI and ES dizzys were the same, but I will definately check this out. The dizzy is definately EST though as when I bought it the three pin plug came as part of it. Will this make any difference more than timing. It is definately not an MPFI dizzy though, I checked the gaps when I got it and hey were all the same.

I think I may also have discovered part of the problem, I don't think my hand held tacho is reading right in the higher rev range. At the moment I still can't get it into diagnostic mode to really nail the base timing and the loom doesn't appear to have a spout connector in it at all, may have to make one.

Thanks or the info guys, will look into it tommorrow.
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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Did the measurements XD and it is definately an EST distributor. Was just wondering if a worn distributor shaft/busshings can cause this. When I bought the dizzy it had just enough play in it that the rotor contacted the hall effect sensor. Can this maybe affect the spark at higher revs?
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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:32 pm 
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Yes, worn bushes in the dizzy can make it have a hiccup. Also, you need to earth the heat sink that you stuck the TFI module to.....to the battery earth...good proper earth that one.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:46 am 
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If the rotor is touching the hall effect pickup then the distributor is worn. Is time for another one. Possible it will be causing your problems
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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:30 pm 
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I figured this might be causing some ignition problems, just at a loss as to why it is fine at idle and misses above 2000.
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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Maybe coz the higher the revs the rotor spins at the more choppy the spark signal to the tfi module gets. I know with old points distributors wear in the shaft caused the ignition timing to scatter
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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:03 pm 
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Sounds like if it not the cause, it could definately be a contributing factor. Now the big question is, where do I get a new bush?
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 Post subject: Re: 250 EFI CONVERSION
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:01 pm 
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Unless it is a rare dizzy, prob easier to go to the wreckers. If you want yours recond, best bet is a good auto electrician. If he can't do it will be able to steer you to who can. Years ago I got all mine done through auto electricians. These days everyone seems to chuck em away and buy new ones
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