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3" exhaust with good mufflers 

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:33 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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I appreciate your advice on what size, but the person that is tuning and did the work on my car has made the most powerful NA e-series 4.0L and quickest one as well. So i'm going to do what he recommends, im just after some advice on decent mufflers. :wink:

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:51 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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ELboy wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
GeZza200 wrote:
its not overkill, I will show the next dyno sheet when a 3" system is on it.


Back to your original question, I think you'll just have to squeeze and as many mufflers under it as you can.


That doesn't make sense at all. Why fit 3" exhaust if your going to fit more mufflers to quieten it? It's actually mufflers that cause a restriction :roll:



Go away, learn about exhausts and then back and start posting. :roll:

Tha Cons wrote:
ELboy wrote:
Can you come up with one good reason why 3inch is overkill?


Um well first where talking about a NA Ford 4.0 I6 not some high performance turbo engine.

I'm not just some kid with no knowledge giving my opinion, i'm talking from years of research training and experience i've only been a fully qualified mechanic for 7yrs but have a lot of knowledge from working with guys that have 30+ years in the trade. I don't care what your dyno read out says, dyno's do not measure real world performance! They measure the amount of maximum power your engine makes at the rear wheels. So because a 3" inch system might make a little more power at max revs does not mean anything, do you constantly drive at max revs, is this a race or drag car or just your daily drive? If it is for a daily drive it is overkill and not to mention will sound terrible

Where did you hear that your 2.5" system is too restrictive? If anything it would be your mufflers causing a restriction not pipe diameter, a good section of straight pipe will flow around 115 CFM per inch of diameter.

Exhaust gas is hot and it's best to keep it hot throughout the exhaust system. Why? Cold air is dense air, and dense air is heavy air. An extremely large exhaust pipe will cause a slow exhaust flow because the gas cools and becomes heavier

Mass of air that the engine breathes in + mass of fuel = mass of exhaust gases. A 2.5" diameter is well suited to a 3984 cc engine that revs to only 6000rpm. Turbo or supercharged engine is total different story

The problem is exhaust shops are just fitters most do not know much at all and they will tell you fitting 3" system will improve performance.



^^^^^^^^ hit it right on[/quote]
Same goes for you.

You have both just posted utter usless crap, and any one that reads it has just become ever so slightly stupider for it.

There is far more to it then I quite frankly have the patience to sit here and explain to people that currently have such a poor understanding of it.
There is plenty of good literature and practical experience to be found if you spend the time to look for it. ALL of it far better then you will learn from a few 50 year old mechanics that have 30 year old advice to give.

But to give you a head start on it all. The power is made by the headers, and that doesn't you jam a short 3 inch long collector on the end of the secondary pipes and call it a job done.
The rest of the exhausts job is ONLY to provide a means of removing the exhaust gases to a suitable location. That job needs to be done with ZERO restriction over the entire operating RPM.

If you want to fill in the blanks you need to do you're own research.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:40 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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115cfm per inch of diameter is totally wrong.
The change in cross sectional area with diamater is not linear.

1" pipe = 506.7mm^2
2" pipe = 2026.8mm^2
3" pipe = 4560.4mm^2


To the OP, I cant suggest any mufflers for you but I agree with tickford_6 about fitting as many as possible to quieten it down. Maybe somethign like a hotdog just after the cat, then a long straight-thru muffler before the diff to another hotdog, or box resonator, in the tail pipe.

I heard your car the day it was dyno'd (not on the dyno though). It sounded great. What system was on it?
Great result.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:44 am 
Getting Side Ways
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cheers its got, pacemaker 4480's with a magnaflow 2.5" cat, then a hotdog, then a straight through muffler then another hotdog on the end.

 

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EL Futura: CVE head, Wolf V500, ICE Ignition and Coil, 36lb injectors, Walbro 255lb, Paci comps, 3" exhaust, T5, Harrop Truetrac with 3.9s. Now with 198.9rwkw, (~185rwkw and 13.80 @99.1mph) with more power to come

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:01 am 
Getting Side Ways
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ELboy wrote:
Without being forced induction a 3" system is just over kill. I've had major head work done to my 95DT head by Gilbert's P & A Cylinder Head Services, these guys really know the EA-AU 3.9/4.0. I've tried like every off shelf system made for EL 4.0, it's taken me years to make a system that flows very well but also sounds good. I running 4480 pacemaker headers 2.5" redback high flow cat, 2.5" mandrel bent pipe into hotdog just before diff then 2.5" mandrel bent tail pipe with a mercury 2.5" high flow muffler cut in. This system sounds nothing like an off shelf sports system, it has no drone at all it is actually pretty quiet highway driving. Has a real nice lumpy growl not that horrid droning bark sound most falcons with sports exhaust have, sounds really good echoing off buildings even turns heads

Real world experiences have prove what you are saying is wrong. There are 2x13 second N/A 6cyl E Series in QLD running 3" exhausts. One of the cars has a head built by Gilberts. I'm going with tickford_6 AND CVE on this one.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:06 am 
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I picked up upto 15rwkw when I upgraded to a 3inch from 2.5.
I made a thread like this a couple years ago & copped flack too.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:16 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Seeing people's justification for why a 3" is overkill is always the most entertaining thread.

I had a 2.5" one muffler rage system on my old car and wasn't too bad, so provided you could get a 2 muffler system would be the go.

Personally I would find some good mufflers and get someone to knock you one up. I have Hooker Aerochambers, but I think even with two you are going to be at the loud end.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:08 am 
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One of the exhaust manufacturers, maybe redcat, make a 3" tail pipe section for over the diff.
Buy one of them then the exhaust shop only needs to knock up the centre section, very easy for them.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:44 pm 
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MAD wrote:
One of the exhaust manufacturers, maybe redcat, make a 3" tail pipe section for over the diff.
Buy one of them then the exhaust shop only needs to knock up the centre section, very easy for them.


Yeah its Redback.
Thats what was used on mine. Cost around $700 with a cat.

What headers are you guys running with 150+rwkw???
I use Pacey Comps that are lengthened at the end by about 4inches for a Bit more torque.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Whoops. I meant to type redback.
I was just looking at some RC Car stuff and the brand I was looking at was redcat... haha.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:56 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Yeah im using pacemaker comps, I'm getting an ice ignition setup and a full 3" and that should see me over 200rwkw.

 

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EL Futura: CVE head, Wolf V500, ICE Ignition and Coil, 36lb injectors, Walbro 255lb, Paci comps, 3" exhaust, T5, Harrop Truetrac with 3.9s. Now with 198.9rwkw, (~185rwkw and 13.80 @99.1mph) with more power to come

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:28 pm 
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theres a hint of truth in the exhaust restriction mumbo jumbo, its just that people get told a lot of wank and then create general ideas in their head.
Let me whisper a little something in your ear.. its not 'just' the exhaust, its fairer to say that a engine that cant adjust its fuel delivery needs back pressure to perform.
The "less" restriction there is the more air that can be drawn into the motor.. the less the restriction the more power.
the increase in torque is not due to back pressure though lol, its about changes in air/fuel mixture.
there is nothing wrong with a 3 inch exhaust on an i6. its in the tuning.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:58 pm 
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If you are refering to my post about getting a bit more torque with the header lengthening, it will be getting tuned after i get it done to suit.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:06 pm 
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Trav 4.0 wrote:
If you are refering to my post about getting a bit more torque with the header lengthening, it will be getting tuned after i get it done to suit.


Well its more of a general statement to people who are misinformed about needing back pressure.
yeah get it all tuned, though modern engine management systems can handle a header change.

 

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 Post subject: Re: 3" exhaust with good mufflers
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:14 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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chris sieclay wrote:
Let me whisper a little something in your ear.. its not 'just' the exhaust, its fairer to say that a engine that cant adjust its fuel delivery needs back pressure to perform.


**edited to be nicer.

Restriction is never good, you never aim to have restriction in a system. You don't need back pressure.

Both are horrific by-products which operate outside the ideal gas velocity you are designing your system for. Just because they are there does not mean they are beneficial.

 

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EVL098 wrote:
Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays?

AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone.

Last edited by skidder on Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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