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'97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes? 

 

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 Post subject: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:46 pm 
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G'day, guys.

The past two months my '97 EL Falcon GLi Wagon has been rocking like hell when idling. The idle is VERY rough.

It makes no difference whether the engine is hot or cold. The rough idle eases up a bit when switching from Drive (Auto transmission) to Neutral or Park. But when you drop it into gear, drive or reverse, it shakes like crazy.

I have been told that it could be due to the fact that it has been running on 98 unleaded for the past 6 months, but I was told that was better fuel and I have been very happy with the power the car has.

I have recently removed and cleaned the ISC (Idle Speed Controller), replaced the spark plugs and leads, replaced the air filter and the car had a full service about 4 months ago. There appears to be a miss (I can hear it and feel a skip at the exhaust) and it is regular and repeated and it becomes more frequent and less noticeable as the engine RPM rises. The new plugs and leads made a big difference to the power of the car, but only made the idle slightly smoother. I have also cleaned the throttle body, although there was hardly any build-up in there.

Are there any common causes of a rough idle in this model? I would like to call on the expertise of you guys here, before I start burning money.

I have also heard that the CPS (Crank Position Sensor) could be to blame? Could this be the case?

Thanks in advance, guys. If I have missed out any important info, please let me know and I will post it up! :)

 

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Ride: '97 EL Falcon GLi Wagon
Mods: 2.5" Redback catback, 6000k HID, Blue LED Trip Computer, Blue LED dash, LED Audi Style Parker Lights, Footwell Lighting, White interior door handles with fade in and out with parker lights, Fairlane rear courtesy lamp.

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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:08 pm 
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Any help at all, guys? I have heard that a rough idle in this model is not uncommon.

For what it is worth, I just double checked that all spark leads were connected. Also, there is definitely a miss, which becomes much less noticeable as the RPM increases past about 1200.

Thanks, guys. I hope you can help. :)

 

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Ride: '97 EL Falcon GLi Wagon
Mods: 2.5" Redback catback, 6000k HID, Blue LED Trip Computer, Blue LED dash, LED Audi Style Parker Lights, Footwell Lighting, White interior door handles with fade in and out with parker lights, Fairlane rear courtesy lamp.

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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:10 pm 
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mine does it as well, not to your extent though.
when I changed the leads it went away.. for a few days lol still have no idea what it is
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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:31 pm 
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It sounds like what my EL GLi did.. does it sound lumpy as sh*t too?

I took mine into 2 local mechanics, changed spark plugs and leads and all that stuff, got a new gasket on the inlet manifold and it ran a little better but still ran horrible.

It broke down the same week and the culprit... Stripped distributor gear.
Yours may not be that, but it sounds alot like it mate, sorry to say.
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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:39 pm 
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RUXT0N wrote:
It sounds like what my EL GLi did.. does it sound lumpy as sh*t too?

I took mine into 2 local mechanics, changed spark plugs and leads and all that stuff, got a new gasket on the inlet manifold and it ran a little better but still ran horrible.

It broke down the same week and the culprit... Stripped distributor gear.
Yours may not be that, but it sounds alot like it mate, sorry to say.


I am prepared to pay for a new intake manifold gasket, but what kind of cash would I have to lay out to repair a stripped distributor gear? Is that just "buy a whole new distributor?"

Also it is VERY lumpy. It is like: bup-bup-nothing-bup-nothing-bup-bup

It sounds like crap to be honest. Haha. I won't lie. :lol:

Thanks for sharing your experience with us all, mate. :)

 

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Ride: '97 EL Falcon GLi Wagon
Mods: 2.5" Redback catback, 6000k HID, Blue LED Trip Computer, Blue LED dash, LED Audi Style Parker Lights, Footwell Lighting, White interior door handles with fade in and out with parker lights, Fairlane rear courtesy lamp.

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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:03 am 
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I'm no expert but that's what mine was like, with my exhaust it sounded like a boat.

I had no idea how to fix or replace it, and it is right in the motor. I was told it would cost alot to repair labor wise and it may have gone through the internals anyway. So I just dropped a new tickford motor in as recommended, my car has never ran so good!!
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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:04 am 
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Have a mechanic confirm that it is or isn't the distributor gear before you pay for anything else to be done to your motor I reckon (:

I'm happy to help, as so you don't end up breaking down on the Hume and having to get towed! Hahaha
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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:23 am 
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RUXT0N wrote:
Have a mechanic confirm that it is or isn't the distributor gear before you pay for anything else to be done to your motor I reckon (:

I'm happy to help, as so you don't end up breaking down on the Hume and having to get towed! Hahaha


Oh, okay, mate.

How much was the Tickford motor plus installation? My car is immaculate and I would hate to have to get rid of it for something small, but I just hope that this rough idle doesn't begin to damage the rest of the car and make installing a reconditioned engine pointless, as so much damage has already been done by my current engine.

I wish you could jump in so I could show you how it jumps at idle. I have never been in a car like it. But in saying that, it has plenty of guts and takes off from the lights without any hesitation. It is not so bad on the freeway, but a day of driving through the city is bloody annoying and uncomfortable.

It's great to know there are people like you who are so keen to help, mate. It is very much appreciated by myself and ever other member of this forum. I see you have given MANY people useful answers to their questions. I see your name and avatar everywhere on here! Please keep up the good work, mate! :D

 

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Ride: '97 EL Falcon GLi Wagon
Mods: 2.5" Redback catback, 6000k HID, Blue LED Trip Computer, Blue LED dash, LED Audi Style Parker Lights, Footwell Lighting, White interior door handles with fade in and out with parker lights, Fairlane rear courtesy lamp.

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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Hahah cheers mate I'm happy to help!

So your car only IDLES rough? When mine was on the way out, the needle would jump around alot on idle, and even when accelerating it would be rough and the tacho needle would vary in revs moving up and down a little, it hesitated, alot.

In the worse situation and you do need a new motor, just find one at a wreckers or post in the wanted to buy section of the forum. I posted in the wanted to buy section and I got a message about a tickford motor with 155,000km on it for I think $650. Picked it up and my uncle helped me put it in over a weekend.
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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:24 am 
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RUXT0N wrote:
Hahah cheers mate I'm happy to help!

So your car only IDLES rough? When mine was on the way out, the needle would jump around alot on idle, and even when accelerating it would be rough and the tacho needle would vary in revs moving up and down a little, it hesitated, alot.

In the worse situation and you do need a new motor, just find one at a wreckers or post in the wanted to buy section of the forum. I posted in the wanted to buy section and I got a message about a tickford motor with 155,000km on it for I think $650. Picked it up and my uncle helped me put it in over a weekend.


Thanks, mate. I wish it could get reconditioned and go forever, but that is pretty ideal I think.

$650 isn't bad. But because I don't know anybody who could help me put it in, the labour would cost an absolute fortune.

 

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Ride: '97 EL Falcon GLi Wagon
Mods: 2.5" Redback catback, 6000k HID, Blue LED Trip Computer, Blue LED dash, LED Audi Style Parker Lights, Footwell Lighting, White interior door handles with fade in and out with parker lights, Fairlane rear courtesy lamp.

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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:12 am 
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There's probably 30 different parts that will cause this issue. Before anyone can give a definite answer you need to confirm/replace the entire ignition system is in working order. Then make sure there are absolutely no vacuum leaks whatsoever. These cars are a pain in the a***. Have you done a diagnostics?

My car vibrates when it's in gear, it's either a stuffed converter/gearbox or probably the engine mounts. It's not an EF so it's definitely not the ECU or cam phase sensor, that's about as much as I can tell you!
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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:00 pm 
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ILLaViTaR wrote:
There's probably 30 different parts that will cause this issue. Before anyone can give a definite answer you need to confirm/replace the entire ignition system is in working order. Then make sure there are absolutely no vacuum leaks whatsoever. These cars are a pain in the a***. Have you done a diagnostics?

My car vibrates when it's in gear, it's either a stuffed converter/gearbox or probably the engine mounts. It's not an EF so it's definitely not the ECU or cam phase sensor, that's about as much as I can tell you!


Thanks for the info, mate. I will do some air intake diagnostics tomorrow and see if there are any leaks. I found that tightening the front 3 bolts on the lower intake manifold (8mm hex bolts, I think), I was able to reduce the vibration at idle while in "Drive" gear. I will take the air intake piping off tomorrow and tighten the rest of them, I think there are 5 more, for a total of 8. But I couldn't quite see properly.

I noticed that the front three bolts were noticeably loose, which I am sure would allow unmetered air into the fuel/air mixture and thus cause the car to run lean. I will see if tightening these bolts helps and if so, I will let you all know! :)

P.S. ILLaViTaR, I agree. These cars sure can be a pain in the a**. Too many computers I think could be the problem!

 

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Ride: '97 EL Falcon GLi Wagon
Mods: 2.5" Redback catback, 6000k HID, Blue LED Trip Computer, Blue LED dash, LED Audi Style Parker Lights, Footwell Lighting, White interior door handles with fade in and out with parker lights, Fairlane rear courtesy lamp.

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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:50 pm 
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How did ya go? Car still running rough?
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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:07 am 
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RUXT0N wrote:
How did ya go? Car still running rough?


It is still idling rough, but it is noticeably better than it was initially. I have not yet tightened the remaining 5 (I think) bolts on the intake manifold as I have been too preoccupied and have forgotten. However I have a feeling that if tightening 3 bolts made a noticeable difference, there is a good change that tightening the rest of them should make a huge difference.

Thanks for your concern, Ruxton. I will tighten them up tomorrow morning, before heading out with the family. I will be driving, so hopefully I will notice it straight away! :)

 

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Ride: '97 EL Falcon GLi Wagon
Mods: 2.5" Redback catback, 6000k HID, Blue LED Trip Computer, Blue LED dash, LED Audi Style Parker Lights, Footwell Lighting, White interior door handles with fade in and out with parker lights, Fairlane rear courtesy lamp.

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 Post subject: Re: '97 EL Falcon GLi I6 - Rough Idle When Hot and Cold. Causes?
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:38 am 
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Alright good luck! Hopefully it works out.
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