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AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam? 

 

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 Post subject: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Hey there blokes, I just have a lengthy question to hit you with...I put an AU VCT head on my EF several months ago, but unfortunately at the time I took the cam phaser apart & re-assembled it which is a big no no. I find that with the VCT disconnected (it's attached to the BBM solenoid at the moment) the car has much more performance & good mid to top end perormance. I am guessing the loss of power when the VCT is conneceted is because I have put the phaser back on in the incorrect position (I judged it to be right going by the screw marks left on the sprocket from when the factory assambled it), what do you guys think?I have found another VCT sprocket a phaser but the chap wants $110. Would I be better off to just forget VCT and get an aftermarket cam? would the car perform much better? I don't want a lumpy idle however but something with decent punch.

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:32 am 
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Could it be that you set up the cam timing wrong in the first place?

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:43 pm 
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MAD wrote:
Could it be that you set up the cam timing wrong in the first place?

Maybe. All I did was line up the crank pulley with it's mark then mark the chain where it lined up with the cam sprocket line. from there I removed the EF sprocket and put the VCT sprocket on with the cam dot in line with the mark I put on the chain initially. I don't have any skill or knowlege in proper cam timing. Could this cause the VCT to actually reduce performance when hooked UP? The car has quite good performance when disconnected is this weird also?

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:52 pm 
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There may be a different procedure for setting the cam up in a VCT to allow for the action of the phasers.
I don't know whether the phasers move the cam timing at low rpm, then let the cam move back to installed timing at high rpm, or if it's the opposite to that.

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:49 pm 
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tapeworm wrote:
Would I be better off to just forget VCT and get an aftermarket cam?


That would defeat the purpose of fitting the head in the first place.

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:13 am 
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tickford_6 wrote:
tapeworm wrote:
Would I be better off to just forget VCT and get an aftermarket cam?


That would defeat the purpose of fitting the head in the first place.


It would, but it doesn't matter. An after market cam might still be a better way to go.

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:15 am 
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tapeworm wrote:
MAD wrote:
All I did was line up the crank pulley with it's mark then mark the chain where it lined up with the cam sprocket line. from there I removed the EF sprocket and put the VCT sprocket on with the cam dot in line with the mark I put on the chain initially.

I think this maybe your problem. There is a difference in the timing chain marks for the cam gear on the AU compared to the E series. Changing cams may not solve your issue unless you confirm the cam timing is correct.

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:46 pm 
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twase wrote:
tapeworm wrote:
MAD wrote:
All I did was line up the crank pulley with it's mark then mark the chain where it lined up with the cam sprocket line. from there I removed the EF sprocket and put the VCT sprocket on with the cam dot in line with the mark I put on the chain initially.

I think this maybe your problem. There is a difference in the timing chain marks for the cam gear on the AU compared to the E series. Changing cams may not solve your issue unless you confirm the cam timing is correct.


Thanks for your help.. I can't check cam timing myself, i don't know how. I've already bought another phaser which has never been removed from the sprocket as well. i know the EF has a line on the sprocket where as the AU VCT one has a dot instead, is that's all that's different?

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Hi,

read my build thread for my VCT install...

My phasor was in bits and it was really in bits... I have to make tools to be able to slide the inner gear into the collar and then that into the outer...

Because of this I timed mine using a dial indicator to the ford factory spec... The VCT part of the ford manual will be in my garage thread (link in sig)... I would re-attach it but I had to shrink it before because it was way too big and now I can't find the shrinked file...

Phasor solenoid should be powered at idle and turn off at 3000rpm... The BBM is no good because it changes at 3800rpm and judging by mine you sure wouldn't want to go above 3000rpm...

Did we discuss the jaycar switch previously? Sure it was you I was telling the ins and outs of all this before???

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Yeah, thanks mate, you sent me the Ford VCT manual a few months ago...I notice it stresses to never take the phaser off the sprocket as the position is vital for performance.. I can only put in the new sprocket and phaser that hasn't been pulled to pieces (what a nighmare it is to get back together btw!).I will put the VCT sprocket on in the position the original EF sprocket was in relation to the timing chain. This should be Okay?

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:43 pm 
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I haven't done a VCT cam. But if you do that with a regular AU cam/gear you will bend things.

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:14 am 
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Hey...

If you pulled the gear and collar arrangement out of the phasor and didn't line it up where it originally came from then just doing the 4 bolts back up where they were wont ensure to be anywhere near "timed"...

The phasor is "timed" as such... The angle between the mark on the gear and the dag that sticks out the inside which hooks into the crank... If you pulled that centre piece out and you could have slide it back in at any point in the 360 degrees... You're one lucky man to have not bent all the valves... You're lucky it even starts...

As I said before, use the ford workshop manual and degree the cam in just like any after market cam, if you don't know how to than find a friend... No point throwing out a phasor simply because you wont time the cam to the factory spec?

It all has nothing to do with where the sprocket is in relation to the chain, it is all about getting the cam in relation to the crank this is why everybody sets the crank at TDC and then uses a dial indicator directly on the cam or rocker arm... It wasn't that hard to do and then counteracts the skim off the head and stretch in the chain, my VCT is more in time than any AU today, it gets the most out of it too...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm 
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TimmyA wrote:
Hey...

If you pulled the gear and collar arrangement out of the phasor and didn't line it up where it originally came from then just doing the 4 bolts back up where they were wont ensure to be anywhere near "timed"...

The phasor is "timed" as such... The angle between the mark on the gear and the dag that sticks out the inside which hooks into the crank... If you pulled that centre piece out and you could have slide it back in at any point in the 360 degrees... You're one lucky man to have not bent all the valves... You're lucky it even starts...

As I said before, use the ford workshop manual and degree the cam in just like any after market cam, if you don't know how to than find a friend... No point throwing out a phasor simply because you wont time the cam to the factory spec?

It all has nothing to do with where the sprocket is in relation to the chain, it is all about getting the cam in relation to the crank this is why everybody sets the crank at TDC and then uses a dial indicator directly on the cam or rocker arm... It wasn't that hard to do and then counteracts the skim off the head and stretch in the chain, my VCT is more in time than any AU today, it gets the most out of it too...

Cheers,
Tim


Thanks Tim. I definitely took the centre piece out which the camshaft then slots into, but put it back in the correct position :mrgreen: However I don't trust myself that all is precise and well & I have already bought another one so theres no turning back for me. If the replacement sprocket is put on then the cam can only slot into the phaser in the correct position or as Ford have set it, no? thanks for everyones help in my little saga.

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Ok.

You'd only have to have been one tooth out on that inner part to mess the timing up...

The cam can only go into the phasor in one place yes... It'll be getting the phasor into the timing chain that'll be tricky as you notice on the AU section of the ford workshop manual it lined up between the two yellow links, but once the motor had done one revolution it never lined up again (not conveniently at least)...

You'll just have to try and get that line straight up (where the two yellow links would normally be)...

Again because your chain would be stretched and you'd have skimmed the head, it still wont be timed to spec, but it'll be closer... This is where the dial indicator comes in to advance to counteract the retard from chain stretch and head skim...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: AU VCT on EF block -should I ditch the cam?
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:52 pm 
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okay thanks alot.

 

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