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BA/BF head on a EF/EL block. 

 

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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:55 am 
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tickford_6 wrote:
You can't get custom cam drive parts, cast a one off timing cover and have it machined at a cost that will make this worthwhile.


LOL. Guess whats sitting in my garage? - a f**k milling machine, probably a bit small though so id have to drive to my mates place and use his one. Oh dear, i need to turn something down or make a spacer, s**t....oh that right i have a lathe too.

At my last job (large structural engineering fabrication company) a couple of the arvo/night shift guys had a bit of a play casting some parts using lost foam - the results wern't entirely terrible - with a bit of refining and some time spent with some casting/foundry enthusiasts i could probably get a passable timing cover made - or just a pay $200 or so and get a lasercut one and mill out the bits i dont need.

Sure i dont have the resources of Ford, but i do seem to have more rescources than you think.

 

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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:10 pm 
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i'd love to see this, i love machinework as a whole :)

my dad asked me a question the other day and my curiosity nearly got the better of me, wondering if an au crossmember and suspension would fit into an e series, i don't have the money or resources but as the race car builders usually say, "make it fit". it probably wouldn't but i'd give it a go, since i been watching a couple of programs on the tv like dream garage and s**t.

i'd love to try to convert au hubs over to an e-series as well so that i'd be able to have more choice of wheels too.

i did a k-frame cut with my el for my au conversion, but im looking to see if i can put some metal in the cut to reinforce where i've cut because it doesn't feel right taking out metal, and then just sealing it up. so for me it's a piece of mind, realizing that the k-frame probably will never have the strength it already had, but at least i can put some strength into rather than just leaving it in a weakened state and sealing it up.
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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Wolf454 wrote:
i'd love to see this, i love machinework as a whole :)

my dad asked me a question the other day and my curiosity nearly got the better of me, wondering if an au crossmember and suspension would fit into an e series, i don't have the money or resources but as the race car builders usually say, "make it fit". it probably wouldn't but i'd give it a go, since i been watching a couple of programs on the tv like dream garage and s**t.

i'd love to try to convert au hubs over to an e-series as well so that i'd be able to have more choice of wheels too.

i did a k-frame cut with my el for my au conversion, but im looking to see if i can put some metal in the cut to reinforce where i've cut because it doesn't feel right taking out metal, and then just sealing it up. so for me it's a piece of mind, realizing that the k-frame probably will never have the strength it already had, but at least i can put some strength into rather than just leaving it in a weakened state and sealing it up.


The fitting of an AU K Frame to an E series has been done as well as IRS. So it is nothing new. As for cutting the K Frame on a EF/EL to fit an AU Motor.. WHY... Mod the sump and all is legal.
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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:33 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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because i was advised by several people, that alloy is exceptionally hard to weld when it's impregnated with oil, (motor's a reco with 180k on it) and that it could just fail at any time. these people that advised me were:
race car builder
mechanical engineer
engineer
boilermaker

and i got no worries about getting an engineer's cert for it. also, at a later date when i have a bit more money, dohc conversion, where you have to cut the k-frame anyway. so really, it was a more viable option for me.
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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:00 pm 
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Wolf454 wrote:
because i was advised by several people, that alloy is exceptionally hard to weld when it's impregnated with oil, (motor's a reco with 180k on it) and that it could just fail at any time. these people that advised me were:
race car builder
mechanical engineer
engineer
boilermaker


Well just to let you know the above are full of s**t. Aluminium is not porous. I have have 4 or 5 done at this stage with no issues and others have done it as well. I am a Boilermaker by trade so don't go near the bloke that told you that as well as the other 3 idiots.
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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:51 pm 
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bit negative don't you think?

the cut's already done anyway, and it'll be engineered, don't see the big deal.
i never said anything about aluminum, i said alloy.

the problem is, and this is what s**t me off, is that no matter who i talk to, someone's going to say one thing, another's going to get all s**t about it and say another thing, and really it gets to a point where i say "eff this" and do it myself, and find out for myself.

I'm 23, got f**k all money at the moment cause i've just paind for my wedding, i wanted 5000 bucks so i could do an xr6 turbo conversion, but instead i had 500, and bought an au motor instead. i deal with what i have cause i got other s**t to pay off too, the car only became priority in the last 2 weeks cause it's been sitting for 2 years. so i've building my au motor up slowly, and then when i think it's good enough, i'll pull it out, sell it and that'll go to either the funding of my Mk2 cortina and it's 363 on a dart block, or a deposit for a low end DOHC from atomic engines or something.

i could've given up and just sold the car when the original motor died. i could of not bought my cortina, i could've easily said stuff it and not touched a car. and to be honest, i'm not far off it with the way the queensland government is, let alone the feds because nobody, not a single friggin' person can go "nice car mate" they have to do some senseless b**ch. can't even agree on a single bloody decision together to change rta rules, and just sits back complaining. i've been out, signing petitions, trying to join clubs and stuff, so that i can do my bit, because i want to see badass cars where they belong, on the road.

i did it my way, because this is the way that i thought would benefit me most. because of that cut, i learned how to weld, because of that cut, i took an auto electrician course, i took a job as a trade assistant, doing mechanical work on all sorts of machinery so that i could better understand how to work out how to pull stuff apart, service it etc. i have done so much stuff to further my skill, because it's all doing stuff that i love. i couldn't of done it without my partner, and without her, i wouldn't even be here posting on this forum.
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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:05 pm 
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Wolf454 wrote:
bit negative don't you think?

the cut's already done anyway, and it'll be engineered, don't see the big deal.
i never said anything about aluminum, i said alloy.

the problem is, and this is what s**t me off, is that no matter who i talk to, someone's going to say one thing, another's going to get all s**t about it and say another thing, and really it gets to a point where i say "eff this" and do it myself, and find out for myself.

I'm 23, got f**k all money at the moment cause i've just paind for my wedding, i wanted 5000 bucks so i could do an xr6 turbo conversion, but instead i had 500, and bought an au motor instead. i deal with what i have cause i got other s**t to pay off too, the car only became priority in the last 2 weeks cause it's been sitting for 2 years. so i've building my au motor up slowly, and then when i think it's good enough, i'll pull it out, sell it and that'll go to either the funding of my Mk2 cortina and it's 363 on a dart block, or a deposit for a low end DOHC from atomic engines or something.

i could've given up and just sold the car when the original motor died. i could of not bought my cortina, i could've easily said stuff it and not touched a car. and to be honest, i'm not far off it with the way the queensland government is, let alone the feds because nobody, not a single friggin' person can go "nice car mate" they have to do some senseless b**ch. can't even agree on a single bloody decision together to change rta rules, and just sits back complaining. i've been out, signing petitions, trying to join clubs and stuff, so that i can do my bit, because i want to see badass cars where they belong, on the road.

i did it my way, because this is the way that i thought would benefit me most. because of that cut, i learned how to weld, because of that cut, i took an auto electrician course, i took a job as a trade assistant, doing mechanical work on all sorts of machinery so that i could better understand how to work out how to pull stuff apart, service it etc. i have done so much stuff to further my skill, because it's all doing stuff that i love. i couldn't of done it without my partner, and without her, i wouldn't even be here posting on this forum.


It's not negative mate at all, its fact, what do you think an AU sump is, yes alloy, alluminium alloy, easily welded by people who know what they are doing with a TIG, onya DAZZ. Alluminium alloy is still not porous, if it was it would weep oil, it doesn't.

No problem with you doing it yourself, good on you. Problem is you were given bad advice by 4 f**k. No where in what I said was having a go at you just the morons that gave you the advice. I stand by what I have said. Your issue now with RTA Etc is that you have a cut KFrame and it will need to be engineered. I understand what you have said about cutting the frame as you may latter want to fit a Barra. Good to see you having a go and more power too you for doing that.

Again, nothing against you at all, just the bad avice you were given.

Also don't take it all to heart, it will do your head in.
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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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SWC wrote:
Wolf454 wrote:
bit negative don't you think?

the cut's already done anyway, and it'll be engineered, don't see the big deal.
i never said anything about aluminum, i said alloy.

the problem is, and this is what s**t me off, is that no matter who i talk to, someone's going to say one thing, another's going to get all s**t about it and say another thing, and really it gets to a point where i say "eff this" and do it myself, and find out for myself.

I'm 23, got f**k all money at the moment cause i've just paind for my wedding, i wanted 5000 bucks so i could do an xr6 turbo conversion, but instead i had 500, and bought an au motor instead. i deal with what i have cause i got other s**t to pay off too, the car only became priority in the last 2 weeks cause it's been sitting for 2 years. so i've building my au motor up slowly, and then when i think it's good enough, i'll pull it out, sell it and that'll go to either the funding of my Mk2 cortina and it's 363 on a dart block, or a deposit for a low end DOHC from atomic engines or something.

i could've given up and just sold the car when the original motor died. i could of not bought my cortina, i could've easily said stuff it and not touched a car. and to be honest, i'm not far off it with the way the queensland government is, let alone the feds because nobody, not a single friggin' person can go "nice car mate" they have to do some senseless b**ch. can't even agree on a single bloody decision together to change rta rules, and just sits back complaining. i've been out, signing petitions, trying to join clubs and stuff, so that i can do my bit, because i want to see badass cars where they belong, on the road.

i did it my way, because this is the way that i thought would benefit me most. because of that cut, i learned how to weld, because of that cut, i took an auto electrician course, i took a job as a trade assistant, doing mechanical work on all sorts of machinery so that i could better understand how to work out how to pull stuff apart, service it etc. i have done so much stuff to further my skill, because it's all doing stuff that i love. i couldn't of done it without my partner, and without her, i wouldn't even be here posting on this forum.


It's not negative mate at all, its fact, what do you think an AU sump is, yes alloy, alluminium alloy, easily welded by people who know what they are doing with a TIG, onya DAZZ. Alluminium alloy is still not porous, if it was it would weep oil, it doesn't.

No problem with you doing it yourself, good on you. Problem is you were given bad advice by 4 f**k. No where in what I said was having a go at you just the morons that gave you the advice. I stand by what I have said. Your issue now with RTA Etc is that you have a cut KFrame and it will need to be engineered. I understand what you have said about cutting the frame as you may latter want to fit a Barra. Good to see you having a go and more power too you for doing that.

Again, nothing against you at all, just the bad avice you were given.

Also don't take it all to heart, it will do your head in.


Hmm AU sumps are hard to cut and weld Paul

I had an AU sump done and it took 3 goes by the person welding it yet it still leaked a litre of oil a fortnight

But then again it could have been the "machine shop" i went to

Also just curious the piece of alloy needed to weld in place on the cut of the sump on an AU motor is that much $$ in alloy a small piece ?
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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:37 pm 
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ive seen quite a few modified au sumps that have been welded and none of them had issues, obviously the ones i have seen are done properly, seems like there is welding alloy and there is welding alloy properly :wink: ...
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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:56 pm 
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EF_wanabe wrote:

Hmm AU sumps are hard to cut and weld Paul

I had an AU sump done and it took 3 goes by the person welding it yet it still leaked a litre of oil a fortnight

But then again it could have been the "machine shop" i went to

Also just curious the piece of alloy needed to weld in place on the cut of the sump on an AU motor is that much $$ in alloy a small piece ?


AU Sumps are not hard to do if you have the right person doing the job. I have prepared a number of sumps to be welded (how hard is it to cut alluminium with an angle grinder) and to Da22les credit not an issue with any. It is always too hard or can't be done when the shop you go to is not capable. All you use to fill the cut in the sump is a piece of alluminium cut to suit. If the person welding your sump to 3 goes and it still leaked then he is usless for welding alluminium, get your money back and go to someone that knows what they are doing. Did you clean the sump properly and prep in correctly? Why do pepople find this so hard? Do you think cutting a sub frame and rewelding it is easier. No Engineers certificate required for a cut sump.
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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:15 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Oil porosity depends on the quality of the casting, some sumps will have oil that has seeped into imperfections in the ally, if you start cutting a sump and find porosity and oil, chuck it and find a better one. I gave up on modifying the ally sump on my escorts zetec conversion as i kept getting sumps with porosity.

Ive sucsessfully done a modified sump for a Ecotec rodeo and it was possible with a MIG (ive had a fair amount of practice though) its not as hard as some people make out, you just need to do your prep work VERY thoroughly as ally is a b**ch to weld if there are any contaminants (even the oxidised layer will hinder a good weld).

So all in all i wouldnt worry about modifying an AU sump as from what people are saying the casting is of a good quality.

 

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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:21 pm 
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With all the sumps that I have had done or seen done, there have been no issues with the quality of the casting or alloy. If you have oil imprgnation in the sump casting then it is dodgy and as Jose said, throw it away and get another one.
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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:50 pm 
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JOSE wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
You can't get custom cam drive parts, cast a one off timing cover and have it machined at a cost that will make this worthwhile.


LOL. Guess whats sitting in my garage? - a f**k milling machine, probably a bit small though so id have to drive to my mates place and use his one. Oh dear, i need to turn something down or make a spacer, s**t....oh that right i have a lathe too.

At my last job (large structural engineering fabrication company) a couple of the arvo/night shift guys had a bit of a play casting some parts using lost foam - the results wern't entirely terrible - with a bit of refining and some time spent with some casting/foundry enthusiasts i could probably get a passable timing cover made - or just a pay $200 or so and get a lasercut one and mill out the bits i dont need.

Sure i dont have the resources of Ford, but i do seem to have more rescources than you think.



You can have all you like, I'll be sure to search this thread up in 12 months times to have a good laugh.

One of two things will happen. You'll fail or you'll do it and realize it was all a big waste of time and money.

Either way, I'll get to have a laugh.

 

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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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tickford_6 wrote:
You can have all you like, I'll be sure to search this thread up in 12 months times to have a good laugh.

One of two things will happen. You'll fail or you'll do it and realize it was all a big waste of time and money.

Either way, I'll get to have a laugh.


Ok you are right, i give up. No one has posted ANY actual picture evidence that this wont even remotely work, i will just believe the assertions of some blokes who know better than me. You guys should find the guy with the AWD BF wagon and tell him his car is impossible as well (funny enough that guy isnt on this forum, maybe if he was he would have known it wasnt possible and never tried?)

LOL JOKING!

Dont give me that BS of it being a waste of money, as we all know modifying a falcon is pretty much the same as chucking money in a hole (been there done that). me spending thousands on fitting a DOHC head and you spending thousands on your DOHC engine conversion (or headwork or whatever) usually means zip when it comes to sale time.

I dont care if i fail, the whole point is that if we dont try we wont know if its possible or not, i will however not try just because someone says so, if they give no evidence to back up their assertion.

 

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 Post subject: Re: BA/BF head on a EF/EL block.
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:20 am 
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In the 8 yrs I've been on this forum, I've lost count of all the 'impossible' things people have successfully done.
Same scenario, people sh*tcanning them (been guilty of some of that too), telling them stuff they already know - they'll fail, waste money, etc.

It's a good thing there are risktakers out there, or we wouldn't be where we are today.

 

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