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Battery/Starter Motor Question - RESOLVED 

 

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 Post subject: Battery/Starter Motor Question - RESOLVED
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:12 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Hi all

My ED is real slow cranking the engine and I am either thinking battery or starter motor. The battery in the car came from one of my EA's and in there spun the engine over well. In the ED tha charging system seems to be working, 14.5+ volts while the engine is running and the battery is at 12+ volts at engine off. However, when I crank her over it is just like a low battery and it turns slowly and then catches and starts.

So, should I be looking at the battery or just go ahead and swap out the starter motor? ONe is easy, the other is a PITB>

Cheers
RD

 

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Last edited by racedirector on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:13 am 
Getting Side Ways
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may i suggest running the car onto a set of ramps and then putting the car in neutral or park.. run a wire of the starter solonoid and then to the positive you will soon find out if the starter is lagger or not.

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:23 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Ah, good plan! I'll try that when my driveway stops pretending to be a river!

 

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=1998 EL Futura Sedan - The EF Fairmonts Replacement=
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:13 pm 
Parts Gopher
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12v is flat for a car battery, they run 6 cell's at 2.2v each... 13.2v should be roughly where it reads. (with ignition off)
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:39 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Hmmmm, battery is currently 12.66v and when placed back into the EA will spin it quite nicely to fire up. Take it back to the ED and it struggles to turn over.

I will try the battery from my wifes EB when she gets home to see what happens.

 

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=1994 ED Wagon GLi body/EL Fairmont spec with *ALL* EL running gear.=
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=65695
=1998 EL Futura Sedan - The EF Fairmonts Replacement=
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Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:39 am 
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JWM wrote:
12v is flat for a car battery, they run 6 cell's at 2.2v each... 13.2v should be roughly where it reads. (with ignition off)


sorry mate but you're flat out wrong.

12.5 is a battery sitting at full charge, it will be higher after its been charged but will drop back to about 12.5v after a while.

10 or 10.5 is considered flat for a 12v car battery.

alternators generally charge the battery at around 13.8 to 14 volts. varies depending on the alternator/regulator/car/etc.
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Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:16 pm 
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Check the voltage while it is cranking over, the starter could be polling to earth and loosing power that way.

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:08 pm 
Parts Gopher
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zxhoon wrote:
JWM wrote:
12v is flat for a car battery, they run 6 cell's at 2.2v each... 13.2v should be roughly where it reads. (with ignition off)


sorry mate but you're flat out wrong.

12.5 is a battery sitting at full charge, it will be higher after its been charged but will drop back to about 12.5v after a while.

10 or 10.5 is considered flat for a 12v car battery.

alternators generally charge the battery at around 13.8 to 14 volts. varies depending on the alternator/regulator/car/etc.


bah, TAFE teacher told me what I said before... not saying your wrong but I'm suprised he would of said something like that if its not right :?
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Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:41 pm 
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zxhoon wrote:
12.5 is a battery sitting at full charge, it will be higher after its been charged but will drop back to about 12.5v after a while.

10 or 10.5 is considered flat for a 12v car battery.

alternators generally charge the battery at around 13.8 to 14 volts. varies depending on the alternator/regulator/car/etc.

Yep, true.

Unfortunately a stuffed battery can also show a resting voltage of 12.5. The "resting voltage" is the voltage it drops back to after charging. It can take hours to reach this.

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:22 am 
Getting Side Ways
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My slow cranking saga is continuing and I am of the mind now (after some research) that the battery I have in the car is ...ted.

The battery is showing these voltages:

At rest: 12.88v - tick
Ignition on: 12.67 - tick
Engine Running: 14.25 - tick
Cranking: 8.47 - BIG X

So it looks like a new battery is in order and that will be confirmed after I double check wiring and earths etc. I'll just carry a spare battery for a few days while I get to the very bottom of it.

Cheers
Bruce

 

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Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=65695
=1998 EL Futura Sedan - The EF Fairmonts Replacement=
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=106588

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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:12 pm 
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could it be the starter sucking a lot of current if its stuffed in some way?

ive not checked the voltage of my battery at cranking but typically the lights always dim a little which would indicate the voltage drops as the battery is under load...

did you try a different battery in the car that is hard to start? would tell you if either way if its the car or the battery that is faulty...
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:18 pm 
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OK, after my so called know it all post above, I am now stumped.

I decided that I would change the starter anyway but as my EA ones won't fit, I need to grab one out of my EB. So, I thought I would do yet another test.

The other day I had a battery installed in the ED that really struggled to start it. Once the car was running the electrics did strange things and the car went into limp home mode. I took that battery out and sat it on the driveway. Just now, I took that same battery and installed it in my EA Fairmont wagon. Sitting voltage was 12.33v, charging voltage was 14.29v and, get this, cranking voltage was 10.8v. This same battery that was struggling to do anything in the ED, quite happily started and ran the EA. Ultra strong starter spin, all electrics working etc etc etc. I had written this battery off due to this damn ED which is now starting to piss me off.

I am desperately seeking assistance on where the hell I should be looking because this damn car will go back on bloody ebay real soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bruce

 

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=1994 ED Wagon GLi body/EL Fairmont spec with *ALL* EL running gear.=
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=65695
=1998 EL Futura Sedan - The EF Fairmonts Replacement=
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=106588

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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:21 pm 
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Thanks zxhoon, I was typing the above reply so did not see your post.

I have had 3 different batteries in this car and alal have done that same. Cranking speed gets worse the more you use it. For example I would have started the car about 8 times yesterday, by the 8th time I was lucky to get it started. This morning, well normal pathetic cranking but it did start.

Cheers
Bruce

 

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=1994 ED Wagon GLi body/EL Fairmont spec with *ALL* EL running gear.=
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=65695
=1998 EL Futura Sedan - The EF Fairmonts Replacement=
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=106588

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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Mate, your starter motor is "polling", ie power is shorting directly to earth. Check the starter after cranking a bit, it will be VERY hot to touch.
Basically, the starter is stuffed. You will need to replace it.
On the plus side, they make good wheel chocks! :D

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:30 pm 
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hmmm sounds like a starter problem to me, if the same battery works fine in other cars and other batteries struggle to start the ED...

im not sure of the design of the starters in our cars but it sounds like its F**k and needs replacing, if a winding is burnt out or shorted that would cause it to pull a s**t of current causing the voltage to drop and of course would cause slow cranking... i dont know much about starter motors though! could it be the starter solenoid even?

if you have a sparky mate get them to put a current clamp on the cables from the starter, that would show how much current its pulling i guess... and check against your other cars...

good luck with it either way mate, sounds frustrating!
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