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been told can fit steel sump & normal bellhousing to AU . ? 

 

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 Post subject: been told can fit steel sump & normal bellhousing to AU
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:16 pm 
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I was speaking to a wrecker today and he told me you can fit the steel
sump and pre-AU auto bellhousing to the AU motor. He said if you do the
both together it works. I know i've read discussion here and seen a photo
showing why this can't be done, but i can't quite recall the exact nature of
it, so i'm just checking in case.

 

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Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:33 pm 
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How far pre au are u talking about. the autos are pretty much same as respects bolt pattern right back to EA, before that the starter cutout is on the opposite side and bellhousings cannot be swapped to get around this as the 4spd auto has alot deeper bell to allow for the thicker torque convertor and willnot fit in side the older bellhousing.
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:42 pm 
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Just drill the lower holes from sump through bellhousing.. Unless you are runing high power ?? The upper bolts are the same and will be enough...
But its no issue to drill out and fit some 10mm bolts...
Thats AU into E series...
The E series don't have bolts through bellousing sump area.. ..
They don't have issues.. They bolt up anyway..
In this pic the RED bolts at the sump are drilled through bellhousing..
This is a T5 , the BTR is the same...
Image

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:03 am 
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EBXR8380 wrote:
Just drill the lower holes from sump through bellhousing.. Unless you are runing high power ?? The upper bolts are the same and will be enough...
But its no issue to drill out and fit some 10mm bolts...
Thats AU into E series...
The E series don't have bolts through bellousing sump area.. ..
They don't have issues.. They bolt up anyway..
In this pic the RED bolts at the sump are drilled through bellhousing..
This is a T5 , the BTR is the same...

Are you explaining how to bolt an AU motor with alloy sump up to an
EA/EB/ED/EF/EL bellhousing? If so that's cool and the info is good to
know, but it doesn't quite address my question as to whether a steel
sump and unmodified EA-EL bellhousing can be used.

If i can't swap the sump and use my EB bellhousing, my current plan is
not to take the risk, i'll get an AU bellhousing. I drive on rough roads, and
they can be got for say $70.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:12 am 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
EBXR8380 wrote:
Just drill the lower holes from sump through bellhousing.. Unless you are runing high power ?? The upper bolts are the same and will be enough...
But its no issue to drill out and fit some 10mm bolts...
Thats AU into E series...
The E series don't have bolts through bellousing sump area.. ..
They don't have issues.. They bolt up anyway..
In this pic the RED bolts at the sump are drilled through bellhousing..
This is a T5 , the BTR is the same...

Are you explaining how to bolt an AU motor with alloy sump up to an EA/EB/ED/EF/EL bellhousing? If so that's cool and the info is good to know, but it doesn't quite address my question as to whether a steel sump and unmodified EA-EL bellhousing can be used.

If i can't swap the sump and use my EB bellhousing, my current plan is not to take the risk, i'll get an AU bellhousing. I drive on rough roads, and they can be got for say $70.


i don't think an pre au sump will work on an au motor due to oil pump location and internal clearances between the two.

if it were the case though and they are interchanable then why are people who are doing these conversions either a) ground the sump back to clear the k-frame or b) cut the k-frame to clear the sump

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:28 am 
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dose anyone have piks of the sump or k frame thats been ground im thinking on doing a au into my ef and are there any other isues to know about be for i got do this and is it worth it as my motor has died?

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:45 am 
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nannas_ed wrote:
i don't think an pre au sump will work on an au
motor due to oil pump location and internal clearances between the two.

Can anyone confirm that? The person that told me they are
interchangeable said the oil pickups are the same.

I recall reading something about there being extra bolts into the side of a
main bearing journal or housing or somesuchlike on the AU to
stiffen/strengthen the situation and this renders a sump change
unviable . . ?


Quote:
if it were the case though and they are interchanable then why are
people who are doing these conversions either a) ground the sump back
to clear the k-frame or b) cut the k-frame to clear the sump

I reckon they're doing it because it has to be done that way, but i'd just
like to check.

 

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Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:51 am 
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falcon_3512003 wrote:
dose anyone have piks of the sump or k frame thats been ground im thinking on doing a au into my ef and are there any other isues to know about be for i got do this and is it worth it as my motor has died?

Thankfully there are lots of pics of modded sumps and frames on this forum, if you do some searching you should find them.

Putting an AU into an EF would be less work than into an EA/EB/ED, but i still recommend you do research before lobbing into it.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:00 am 
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E series sump is not a bolt on to A or B series, you will need to modify the rear main cap as they are different. There also may be a slight clearance issue around the girdle.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:12 am 
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ok what if u used an au trany to any isues with fitting that in the ef

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:40 am 
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twason wrote:
E series sump is not a bolt on to A or B series, you will need to modify the rear main cap as they are different. There also may be a slight clearance issue around the girdle.


That would be correct. There is clearance issues with the girdle, mainly due to the height of the end caps.

And don't forget in addition to the rear main cap, there is also the timing cover that is different.
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:52 pm 
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falcon_3512003 wrote:
ok what if u used an au trany to any isues with fitting that in the ef


trans is pretty much the same, just change bellhousing to a AU one

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:06 pm 
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arm79 wrote:
twason wrote:
E series sump is not a bolt on to A or B
series, you will need to modify the rear main cap as they are different.
There also may be a slight clearance issue around the girdle.


That would be correct. There is clearance issues with the girdle, mainly due to the height of the end caps.

Okay, thanks. It looks like i'll stick to plan and use an AU bellhousing and
alloy sump and modify the crossmember.

Quote:
And don't forget in addition to the rear main cap, there is also the
timing cover that is different.

I'll be using the AU motor, timing cover, accessories, serpentine, etc, so
that side of things should be good.

Thanks again guys.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:53 pm 
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If you drill the housing there no difference they bolt up and there's no point in changing sump..
On an EB/ED the front bar can be bent 20mm further foward ..Or grind some alloy off sump..
You are making it harder than it is...
We have a C4 auto in this car now..
Btw E series had NO issues with the bolts so why would it with AU engine??
Spend the $80 on bellhousing if you want ..
In any case it may pay to buy engine and box..
This is how we prepared the front Xmember..
The original air compressor bolted up with spacers...
Image

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:50 pm 
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EBXR8380 wrote:
If you drill the housing there no difference they bolt up and there's no point in changing sump..
On an EB/ED the front bar can be bent 20mm further foward ..Or grind some alloy off sump..
You are making it harder than it is...

Yes, i could be doing it with less work. I am listening to and considering
your info and opinions, and they may be okay for a number of people,
but i am still thinking in my case that . .

. . i plan to use the AU bellhousing because i don't want to compromise in
that area, especially as i drive on rough roads which generate much more
forces in this area.

. . and i plan to modify the crossmember because:
i don't want to compromise the original crossmember or sump
i don't want to run an alloy sump with so little protection
i want to beef up the crossmember to stiffen the chassis to be like the EF onwards
i want to fabricate a skid plate of sorts
i wanted to buy a mig anyway, and steel for reinforcement only cost $25

Quote:
In any case it may pay to buy engine and box..

It may be the right choice to update the box too, for sure it may, i have
thought about this. But the current box is working fine and the costs of
the conversion are adding up. So, as much as i don't want to do the
motor and then the box only a few months later, i plan to use the original
box. Maybe i should get a quote on a box, i figure i would be looking at
$400+?

Quote:
The original air compressor bolted up with spacers...

I am told the EA/EB/ED a/c compressor pulley is different to the serpentine belt? Has that wrecker done me wrong again?

 

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