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Bigger cam from Tighe, Camtech, Crescent, Surecam, Wade? 

 

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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:43 pm 
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FairmontXR6 wrote:
My cam specs:
Cam - Surecam: 0.554 Valve lift intake/exhaust; 220@ 50 Duration; 111.5 Lobe separation (3500 - 6500)

Runs fine as per info in my garage....


Any dyno figures, or 1/4 mile times?
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:44 pm 
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opto wrote:
I believe the optimum RPM range starts at around 2500 RPM, but if you feel this suits you, so be it.

???

 

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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:48 pm 
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FordFairmont wrote:
FairmontXR6 wrote:
My cam specs:
Cam - Surecam: 0.554 Valve lift intake/exhaust; 220@ 50 Duration; 111.5 Lobe separation (3500 - 6500)

Runs fine as per info in my garage....


Any dyno figures, or 1/4 mile times?


Not yet - but we are confident of better than 15 if not 14.5, at the moment.

However stall, new auto and diff gears go in this month, so will be at willowbank hopefully 1st week of july at the latest. Wouldn't mind a 13.? but don't want to guess, so I'll just have to wait for just a tad longer.

 

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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:51 pm 
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opto wrote:
Some advice, 110 degree cams may not leave you with much vacuum in the manifold to support brake booster.

The tighter the LSA the smaller the band of power, the power band shifts up the RPM range.

A high lift cam will not necessarily mean power, normally N/A lift above 500 thou you dont get much, if any gain.

Most of those big cams will need an interceptor to modify the ignition advance and fuel maps to suit the cam.


Some good advice there, cheers

In the link below, it says the tighter the lobe centres, the peak power happens earlier in the cams power range?
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=faq&id=2

However ive found with my Wade 977b ground with 110 lobe centres, that its actually pushed power up higher in the rev range compared to a normal 977b just like you said
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:27 pm 
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opto wrote:
Some advice, 110 degree cams may not leave you with much vacuum in the manifold to support brake booster.

The tighter the LSA the smaller the band of power, the power band shifts up the RPM range.

A high lift cam will not necessarily mean power, normally N/A lift above 500 thou you dont get much, if any gain.

Most of those big cams will need an interceptor to modify the ignition advance and fuel maps to suit the cam.


even if the head flow peaks at 500" doesn't mean power wont increase with more lift.
for a given duration the bigger lift will the see the valve at 'peak flow lift' faster and keep it at or above 'peak flow lift' for longer.


the tight LSA will make more power, but it will do so in a narrower rpm band.
the wide LSA will make less power, but will do so in a wider rpm band.

LSA in cunjunction with duration determins idle vacuum. or more to the point the area of the overlap determins it. plotting the lobe profiles on a line graph will highlight it quite well

 

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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:17 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
opto wrote:
Some advice, 110 degree cams may not leave you with much vacuum in the manifold to support brake booster.

The tighter the LSA the smaller the band of power, the power band shifts up the RPM range.

A high lift cam will not necessarily mean power, normally N/A lift above 500 thou you dont get much, if any gain.

Most of those big cams will need an interceptor to modify the ignition advance and fuel maps to suit the cam.


even if the head flow peaks at 500" doesn't mean power wont increase with more lift.
for a given duration the bigger lift will the see the valve at 'peak flow lift' faster and keep it at or above 'peak flow lift' for longer.


the tight LSA will make more power, but it will do so in a narrower rpm band.
the wide LSA will make less power, but will do so in a wider rpm band.

LSA in cunjunction with duration determins idle vacuum. or more to the point the area of the overlap determins it. plotting the lobe profiles on a line graph will highlight it quite well


so whats a good lobe sep for decent sized power band... 115?

wanna make good torque from 2000-3800, without sacrificing too much horsepower.

cms stage 3 looks good, but says headwork is needed first?? cant imagine it wouldnt run on a stock head...

 

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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:38 pm 
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More Grunt wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
opto wrote:
Some advice, 110 degree cams may not leave you with much vacuum in the manifold to support brake booster.

The tighter the LSA the smaller the band of power, the power band shifts up the RPM range.

A high lift cam will not necessarily mean power, normally N/A lift above 500 thou you dont get much, if any gain.

Most of those big cams will need an interceptor to modify the ignition advance and fuel maps to suit the cam.


even if the head flow peaks at 500" doesn't mean power wont increase with more lift.
for a given duration the bigger lift will the see the valve at 'peak flow lift' faster and keep it at or above 'peak flow lift' for longer.


the tight LSA will make more power, but it will do so in a narrower rpm band.
the wide LSA will make less power, but will do so in a wider rpm band.

LSA in cunjunction with duration determins idle vacuum. or more to the point the area of the overlap determins it. plotting the lobe profiles on a line graph will highlight it quite well


so whats a good lobe sep for decent sized power band... 115?

wanna make good torque from 2000-3800, without sacrificing too much horsepower.

cms stage 3 looks good, but says headwork is needed first?? cant imagine it wouldnt run on a stock head...


you can't just look at one part of the cam.

a hint when picking cam. choose a realistic power band. get on all the cam web sites you can and copy all the cam specs they have that suit that power band onto word doc.

then compair all the cams. it will soon become pretty clear what cam will suit you

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:19 am 
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yeah thats what i did,, there's a sticky Doc already done up here, i added surecams cams onto this and away you go comparing. easy
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:08 pm 
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In my veiw the camtech cam stage 2 cam is the way to go according to your engine & car specs.
You need somthing with very strong mid range power due to the nature of the ford 6i engine.
It's not made to suit high revs. The stroke to rod ratio is like a stroker, all made to work low to mid range. That's why the ecu has a rev limiter to 5750rpm. I am a little bit consernded about the std. ecu. If you can get a xr ecu & xr fuel pressure regulator it will be better. With this cam you will need springs. Yes the xr valve springs can handle 600" lift (coil bind) but has it got good seat & open valve spring pressures. The right valve spring is determand on the cams ramp rate on the lobe.
I also would give the head bigger valves inlet & exhaust & will give the head a low to mild port job.
AU head gasket to raise the comp. Don't go to big on the ports. The bigger the ports the more up high you have to rev the engine to work.
This is what i would do in your shoes.
I hope this helps you in some way & good luck with it all.

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:10 pm 
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In my veiw the camtech cam stage 2 cam is the way to go according to your engine & car specs.
You need somthing with very strong mid range power due to the nature of the ford 6i engine.
It's not made to suit high revs. The stroke to rod ratio is like a stroker, all made to work low to mid range. That's why the ecu has a rev limiter to 5750rpm. I am a little bit consernded about the std. ecu. If you can get a xr ecu & xr fuel pressure regulator it will be better. With this cam you will need springs. Yes the xr valve springs can handle 600" lift (coil bind) but has it got good seat & open valve spring pressures. The right valve spring is determand on the cams ramp rate on the lobe.
I also would give the head bigger valves inlet & exhaust & will give the head a low to mild port job.
AU head gasket to raise the comp. Don't go to big on the ports. The bigger the ports the more up high you have to rev the engine to work.
This is what i would do in your shoes.
I hope this helps you in some way & good luck with it all.

 

_________________

FORD EL 4.0L. Crow cam, T.I Performance J3 Chip, Vernier cam gear, CMS stage 3 head, 68mm TB, AU head gasket + ARP studs, AU injectors, Pacey 4480, High flow cat, Shift kit, Stallie, 3:73 TrueTrac.

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:10 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Age: 47

Posts: 346

Joined: 16th Jul 2007

Ride: EL Falcon

Power: 146 rwkw

Location: sydney
NSW, Australia

In my veiw the camtech cam stage 2 cam is the way to go according to your engine & car specs.
You need somthing with very strong mid range power due to the nature of the ford 6i engine.
It's not made to suit high revs. The stroke to rod ratio is like a stroker, all made to work low to mid range. That's why the ecu has a rev limiter to 5750rpm. I am a little bit consernded about the std. ecu. If you can get a xr ecu & xr fuel pressure regulator it will be better. With this cam you will need springs. Yes the xr valve springs can handle 600" lift (coil bind) but has it got good seat & open valve spring pressures. The right valve spring is determand on the cams ramp rate on the lobe.
I also would give the head bigger valves inlet & exhaust & will give the head a low to mild port job.
AU head gasket to raise the comp. Don't go to big on the ports. The bigger the ports the more up high you have to rev the engine to work.
This is what i would do in your shoes.
I hope this helps you in some way & good luck with it all.

 

_________________

FORD EL 4.0L. Crow cam, T.I Performance J3 Chip, Vernier cam gear, CMS stage 3 head, 68mm TB, AU head gasket + ARP studs, AU injectors, Pacey 4480, High flow cat, Shift kit, Stallie, 3:73 TrueTrac.

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 Post subject: big cams
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:38 pm 
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Well with big cams in my experience, with good gearing....i had 4.11's. soon to be manual with the 3.45s

i was running a .554 lift cam on intake and exhaust 220@ 50 duration with a lobe separation of 111.5, (matched to the head 365HP flow at .550) its a high revving cam, but with the 4.11s and auto it PULLED! very well right off the line which was with a stock 2200 stall... any taller i feel would have been bagging wheels off the line.. and pulled strong all the way to the limiter 5700, but felt exceptional above 3000..., i loved this setup, just enough (lag?) bout half a second and your into the cam range not to be spinning all the way up the street....

saying that , thats probably beyond the stock ecu....., i ran about 20L per 100, it IDLED!!! like a v8 dragster which is NICE, braking was slightly effected.. needed a little more pedal effort. BUT general driving it behaved well, didnt miss or do anything funny like that, no flat spots.... so the standard ECU copped it "well" i think if you can handle doing 20L per 100, but again above 4000 it was LEAN.... i did a few skids, just holding 4500 so i wasnt flogging it too hard, and the extractors all the way to the cat were glowing... so yeah down the track not good for the valves etc...saying that below 2000... RICH obviously 20L per 100 so probably protected the valves for lean running flogging :P ( ALSO took about 2 weeks for the computer to settle with this cam. IE.... Stalling, flat spots, missing, MORE fuel chewing.. but did learn a relatively handleable tune, i took that cam out till i get an AU computer for flash tune ability.

Overall it was ENJOYABLE!!!, but stupid with the fuel bill, not good for the engine, and i think it was a LOW 14 car 14.2? considering i would flog my old friends stroker v8 which ran 14.6 and my tuning was f**k lol

Im curious to see what i run with a manual and a TUNE. i'll be dissappoined if it not running mid 13s

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:57 pm 
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Duration at 50 thou is 215 intake and 215 exhaust with 265 lift at the cam and 110 lobe seperation.

can anyone give me some info on this cam? camtech recommended it to me
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:48 pm 
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Fitted the 1543b profile from Wade and its fairly lumpy. I think it might be leaning out, did a quick check with the multimeter on the o2 sensor so might get it on the dyno in the near future

Going from a cam with 110 lobe sep to this cam with 114 degrees you can notice a big difference the way it delivers the power. It feels more tame because the power range is fairly broad, but still needs to be high up in the revs.

Small clip of the idle
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHx5RG_qPpg[/youtube]
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:35 am 
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cold start idle.......

what happens when you run a bigger cam with the ISC blocked off

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8NDxicUzGw[/youtube]
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