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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:12 pm 
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well the article i read was that BA Mk1, Mk2, and BF Mk1 tended to bend rods when reaching around 330rwkw??

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:16 pm 
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The reason for the longer rod is to alter the rod angle at TDC, for more POWER. Same as using 200 Rods in a 250 & 302 Rods in a 351 Clevo .
If you want strong long rods BA LPG Rods, For floating pin Rods use BF Turbo [same as F6 Typhoon]
or any after market turbo BA Rods. BA pistons & rods will fit in an EL block you just end up with zero deck, because AU & BA blocks are A bee's d**k taller. As an AU / BA has a larger main tunnel the mains may suffer from sustained high speed, due to the higher surface speeds of the crank. Same as 351 Windsor did against 351 Cleveland. If you want to know why & how it makes more power it's because the pin in the piston is offset to stop piston slap at BDC. Regards TPVM. Some times I use capitals so I can read it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:25 pm 
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so EF or EL bottom end is the way to go and with either the EL pistons and rods or the BFturbo piston and rods? sorry to ask but if u have zero deck on ur EF or EL block with BF piston and rods would that cause alot of pinging or something?
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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:27 pm 
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EF is better than EL, it has a fully counterweighted crank (as mentioned), as well as ACL pistons yeh?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:38 pm 
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so EL block with EF crack is the way to go with ACL gear?
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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:14 am 
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You said it your self turbo pistons. Turbo pistons have a larger dish. That's what calculating your compression ratio is all about. It depends on what fuel you want to run & how much has been taken off the head. Also what head gasket, genuine AU style steel gaskets are thinner [3 layer] but you can get 4 layer steel from Permaseal. Regards TPVM.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:18 am 
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jamie22_cole wrote:
so EL block with EF crack is the way to go with ACL gear?


No EL anything lol.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:36 am 
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You sure BA bottom ends will go into EF-EL?

Copy and paste from Boostedfalcon.

"For AU bottom ends F6/Egas conrods yes, pistons no. Different valve reliefs. If you want to use AU onward conrods in pre-AU blocks you need an AU crank. Different pin heights.

Unless you want to make 11ty HP then I'd stick with pre-AU motors. Get an ACL race series kit and get a block machined to suit. Can probably reuse most of your s**t if its in good nick. Even a non-race series kit will probably be fine under 500HP.

If you want to go all out- AU motor, can use forged conrods to suit a DOHC. Will need to get a forged piston made as the AU motors all had high compression and none of the DOHC pistons suit SOHC."

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:28 am 
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You can get the valve reliefs machined in to BA pistons, forgot that bit. Regards TPVM.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:27 pm 
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how about this bottom end?

Attachment:
9462_anna_kournikova_031.jpg
9462_anna_kournikova_031.jpg [ 50.22 KiB | Viewed 137 times ]

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:27 pm 
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Michael (HYPOEB) wrote:
sams_missen1604 wrote:
Michael (HYPOEB) wrote:
AU motor will be alot smoother. Will be better for NA.
Wouldnt use a AU motor for boost though since they have longer rods then EA-EL


although there are ways of lowering compression...



Nar im not talking about lowering the compression.
Longer rods = Weaker
A EL bottom end will hold alot more power then a AU bottom end.
Also AU rods are the same length as BA-FG but there not as strong..



Longer does not mean weaker.
AU rods are weaker then EL rods as the late ED to EL rods are a forged steel rod and have a larger cross section in the beam. AU to BF (not sure on FG yet) have powdered metal rods. E-gas rods were upgraded in the BA2, Typhoon rods were for a while the same part number as the first E-gas upgrade. The typhoon then got an other upgrade which was then handed down the E-gas.
After that i don't as i stopped looking.

all that being said there are a number of stock AU bottom ends dealing with 300+ rwkw.
Boost and power very rarely break a rod. To many revs and poor tunes breaks rods. keep the revs sane and a good tune will have the 'weak' engine living for years.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:37 pm 
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This is a pic of an AUII rod.

 

 

Attachments:
New AU2 conrods & BA LPG pistons & Vernia cam chain set + bearin 010.jpg
New AU2 conrods & BA LPG pistons & Vernia cam chain set + bearin 010.jpg [ 401.23 KiB | Viewed 97 times ]
New AU2 conrods & BA LPG pistons & Vernia cam chain set + bearin 001.jpg
New AU2 conrods & BA LPG pistons & Vernia cam chain set + bearin 001.jpg [ 460.07 KiB | Viewed 106 times ]

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:43 pm 
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Michael (HYPOEB) wrote:
You sure BA bottom ends will go into EF-EL?

Copy and paste from Boostedfalcon.

"For AU bottom ends F6/Egas conrods yes, pistons no. Different valve reliefs. If you want to use AU onward conrods in pre-AU blocks you need an AU crank. Different pin heights.

Unless you want to make 11ty HP then I'd stick with pre-AU motors. Get an ACL race series kit and get a block machined to suit. Can probably reuse most of your s**t if its in good nick. Even a non-race series kit will probably be fine under 500HP.

If you want to go all out- AU motor, can use forged conrods to suit a DOHC. Will need to get a forged piston made as the AU motors all had high compression and none of the DOHC pistons suit SOHC."


who ever said that is an idiot.

The big end journal has been the same for years. hell its the same big end journal size that the 250 2V engine had. it the same as the 200 and the 250 cross flow.
here's an EF rod next to an XF 250 rod. EF on the left
Image

what changed from EL to AU was the MAIN bearing journal. the AU crank WILL NOT fit any pre AU engines. all you need to do is the matching rods and pistons. the longer 6.060inch rod needs to be fitted with the shorter pistons.

DOHC pistons can have valve reliefs machined in the correct places. Have at CJH build thread, he is using BA e-gas dome top pistons in a SOHC engine, he also has pics of how he machined the pistons to fit.


Spool are now doing a h-beam 5.88inch to suit the SOHC engine for $695.
Shouldn't be long and they offer a forged piston to suit.

My pick though would be the spool I-beam rod and nice light piston.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:58 pm 
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Here's the difference between an EF and BA piston...they have the same gudgeon pin size.
The BA piston is on the left.

 

 

Attachments:
EF & BA pistons 003_resize.jpg
EF & BA pistons 003_resize.jpg [ 103.86 KiB | Viewed 60 times ]
EF & BA pistons 002_resize.jpg
EF & BA pistons 002_resize.jpg [ 118.84 KiB | Viewed 73 times ]

 

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 Post subject: Re: Bottom ends
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:21 pm 
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This is a modified BA LPG piston next to an EF std piston.
I machined them myself....yet to put engine together...dummy it up to check clearances.

 

 

Attachments:
IMGP1393_resize[1].JPG
IMGP1393_resize[1].JPG [ 40.15 KiB | Viewed 74 times ]
IMGP1394_resize[1].JPG
IMGP1394_resize[1].JPG [ 30.8 KiB | Viewed 91 times ]

 

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