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 Post subject: Cam performance increase
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:04 pm 
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had a guy i know tell me that he didnt think that a cam would actually give a significant increase to top end power as it sort of hits a wall when it gets to peak power at the head and valves.

did say how ever, that a cam would increase low performance (as expected)

anyone disagree with this? im trying to be by-partisan to this till i see proof and some discussion (note how i didnt say argument there)

 

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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:04 pm 
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car manufacturers design their cams for economy, emissions and just enough power to be competitive with the competition.

a cam designer puts heaps of research and dyno time getting it to make the most of the head and valves around it (stock or modded), so yeah it'll make more power up top if thats what its designed to do.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Cam performance increase
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:09 am 
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fiftyone wrote:
had a guy i know tell me that he didnt think that a cam would actually give a significant increase to top end power as it sort of hits a wall when it gets to peak power at the head and valves.

did say how ever, that a cam would increase low performance (as expected)

anyone disagree with this? im trying to be by-partisan to this till i see proof and some discussion (note how i didnt say argument there)


You sir, have way too many retarded friends. Where do you find them???

Cam design is a science, and each design will provide different outputs, particularly on a SOHC Falcon.

One can give you masses of low end and mid range, but no top... But another can give you masses of mid range and some top... Or another can give you high mid and masses of top.

Unfortunately no one cam for a SOHC (or any single cam non VCT engine) can give everything.

It all depends on the design and the application. A JMM Dev 5 will give you 150/160ish on a stock engine with extractors.

Whereas I had a 1636 that gave me great off the line and mid range, but I lost up top compared to my stock XR cam. Suited an auto well. Gave me 130rwkw.
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:48 pm 
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how important is it to match the cam with your extractors or will most cams work with any extractors. like does the cam dictate where the power is or do the extractors play any part? e.g. i have jmm race headers/exhaust, do i have to choose a top end cam to team up with it or will any work just as well.
thanks
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:55 pm 
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i think your looking into it too much........ just whack on any extractors, and a cheap regrind from CMS or Wade and you'll be laughing.

Anything over .500 lift and youll be better off with xr6 valve springs.
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:19 am 
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im glad you said it. its so easy to look into these things with too many to choose from and too many stories about high power figures or those with torque grunt machines. arrrgh
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:33 am 
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FordFairmont wrote:
i think your looking into it too much........ just whack on any extractors, and a cheap regrind from CMS or Wade and you'll be laughing.

Anything over .500 lift and youll be better off with xr6 valve springs.


f**k you continue to be a retard, offering usless advice that is completely misguiding.

The typical extractors you get from someone like JMM are a compromise on a few fronts.

Pipe diametres play a part. Smaller pipes generally have better scavanging effects at lower rpm than larger pipes. Larger pipes can push more volume at higher rpm (therefore more likely making you high end power) but at the expense of some torque at the lower end.

Pipe length also plays a part in the extraction, as extractors are only 100% efficient at certain rpm. Not across the whole rev range. 3 into 1, Tri Y all have different characteristics.

But what you have, and what is mass produced is typically the best compromise for the Falcon street engine. If you want something really special, you'd have to go chat to a decent exhaust manufacturer.
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:11 am 
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arm79 wrote:
FordFairmont wrote:
i think your looking into it too much........ just whack on any extractors, and a cheap regrind from CMS or Wade and you'll be laughing.

Anything over .500 lift and youll be better off with xr6 valve springs.


f**k you continue to be a retard, offering usless advice that is completely misguiding.

The typical extractors you get from someone like JMM are a compromise on a few fronts.

Pipe diametres play a part. Smaller pipes generally have better scavanging effects at lower rpm than larger pipes. Larger pipes can push more volume at higher rpm (therefore more likely making you high end power) but at the expense of some torque at the lower end.

Pipe length also plays a part in the extraction, as extractors are only 100% efficient at certain rpm. Not across the whole rev range. 3 into 1, Tri Y all have different characteristics.

But what you have, and what is mass produced is typically the best compromise for the Falcon street engine. If you want something really special, you'd have to go chat to a decent exhaust manufacturer.


steady on. thats the second time in the post you've had a go at someone for trying to ask or answer a question. if your THAT purturbed by all us ill-informed people, dont relpy to our stoopid n00b questions.

but thank you for the detailed responces

 

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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:18 am 
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Ok. Maybe I've been a bit fiesty, but I have reason to.

This isn't the first time you've ventured onto FM and asked what is a ridiculous question, only to be given an answer you never were going to believe anyways, as your "mates/local old school mechanic told you something" different, but you just came to check. There are 5 billion threads about cams on here, each with different details, results, explainations and more. So how can you come on and ask what is really, a stupid question. Of course a cam is going to give you a performance increase.

Yes, there will be a point where the head runs out of flow and no matter how big the cam is, it will hit a wall. But I'm sure you've read on here about the many cars running around with 150 to 160 rwkw without head work. So obviously your mates are wrong.

As for Mr Fairmont, this is not the first time he has put up some stupid slapstick advice that hasn't helped the person and given them a wayward answer. Recently he would have a poster believe that Ford designed the AU around the rim offset because thats all manufacturers would make for Ford.

rdiigen asked what is essentialy a technical question. FordFairmont came back with a s**t slapstick answer that didn't actually answer the question. Fordmods is a technical modifications forum, and alot of his answers are far from technical. They are the kinda crappy responses you get from going to Pedders or The Tyre Factory, and if alot of people on here aren't careful, they could be responsible for making someone make a bad decsion.

We once had alot of good technical minds on here. They had really done it all and knew their s**t. But they've left, moved onto other forums, etc for the reasons I just put.

P.S. FordFairmont reminds me a lot of an ex member on here by the name of Interceptor.
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:26 am 
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arm79 wrote:
As for Mr Fairmont, this is not the first time he has put up some stupid slapstick advice that hasn't helped the person and given them a wayward answer. Recently he would have a poster believe that Ford designed the AU around the rim offset because thats all manufacturers would make for Ford.

rdiigen asked what is essentialy a technical question. FordFairmont came back with a s**t slapstick answer that didn't actually answer the question. Fordmods is a technical modifications forum, and alot of his answers are far from technical. They are the kinda crappy responses you get from going to Pedders or The Tyre Factory, and if alot of people on here aren't careful, they could be responsible for making someone make a bad decsion.


Are you kidding me? Did you take your medication today you stupid f**k?

From what i gather, the poster was unsure about the whole upgraded cam scenario and you gave him a technical answer, rightfully so, but when the next question was, " do you need to buy a specific cam for the extractors", from which i said IT DOESNT MATTER.....

f**k sake, run my press s**t bent extractors over the 1/4 mile then, run my car over the quarter with JMM headers, betcha theres f**k ALL measurable difference between the two, but no.... all you had to do was confuse him more with your fukin high I.Q. about larger/smaller diameter pipes and scare the C*** into picking the "wrong" cam.

And whats this about AU offset? :?

I believe ive given useful advice to alot of people on here, if you want to have a go at someone, then go to the people who live exclusively in the off topic forum.

And when was i responsible in making someone make the wrong descision?

I believe the doctors nowadays make some great medication, you should try some, instead of making posts 1 o'clock in the morning full of grog

Or maybe you were frustrated cause your husband didnt give you any lovin' last night :lol:
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:11 am 
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Yes I did have my medication. That infection your mum gave me is healing quite nicely. Thanks for asking.

The bloke asked a question which merited a technical answer. I didn't scare him into s**t, but gave him some extra info that may want him to question what hes going to do to get the right results. And I'll bet there will be a difference. Picking the right package of parts to go together will give a f**k better result than randomly picking any old s**t of the shelf, do you not agree?

AU Offset... Do you not remeber this of recent times?

FordFairmont wrote:
frankieh wrote:

Ford has done some dumb things over the years.


.......3. AU offset change. The one most annoying to me at the moment.


mate, the offset change was to a more popular offset which wheel manufacturers have been and will be catering for years to come. Not changing to the au offset wouldve been even worse........


Excellent answer, highly imaginative. But no, you're wrong. And I didn't see you replying in that thread after I corrected you.

Based on your above logic, you're telling us that Holden changed the offset on the VE because aftermarket manufacturers thought producing rims for the VB to VZ models was no longer popular... Funny :lol:

The time I posted doesn't make a difference. It was really 2am since you Queenslanders don't feel the need to follow the rest of the country in daylight savings. Not that it made a difference, I was up working. Fixing f**k made by stupid people that didn't make an informed decision before they did something.
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:21 am 
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Look im not going to debate with someone who's looking to s**t stir, but i would like a link to that thread so i can see the "master" at work with your reply. :)

To the original poster, if the purpose of this thread is to find yourself a suitable cam, then i unfortunately agree with f**k here that the 1636 would be a viable option behind the auto.

However i would still do somthing about the diff gears, maybe change to 3.45's or even 3.7's or fit a high stall as you will still notice a 'lag' in power from a standing start with the long 1st gear
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:44 am 
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Not s**t stirring... Call it how I see it.

And you have enough of the quote to find the post. So go searching.
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