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cams and shims 

 

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 Post subject: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:59 am 
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I have been informed by the local engine rebuilder here that if i want to get a cam grind i dont have to replace my shims as the rockers or something are hydraulic and they all adjust automaticaly. Does this sound correct? Im no cam expert.

 

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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:10 am 
Getting Side Ways
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no, you will have to get an extra shim in each rocker arm the same thickness as what has been ground off the cam

wade cams need an extra 1.9mm shim on top of the 1.9mm shim thats already in each rocker arm. The diameter im not sure of though.... just use the same thats already there
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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:47 am 
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FordFairmont wrote:
you will have to get an extra shim in each rocker arm the same thickness as what has been ground off the cam

Spot on!! If you get a regrind cam from a cam place, ask how much they take off the lobes so you can get a shim to match it and make up for the extra clearance.

I had a cam place over here in NZ tell me the exact same thing because the fact the run hydraulic lifters. The way i see it, it will only adjust itself to so much extra clearance. I guess it's okay if you like your rocker gear noisy as f**k though :lol:

I tried my regrind cam from (Franklin Cams in Auckland) without any shims and it tapped quite a bit. After speaking with them and a guy who was using a similar cam, i threw in an extra 1mm shim with the standard 1.9mm shim to take up the slack and it quietened down and runs fine now.

All depends where you get your cam reground, some places like Wade in Aussie can tell you straight away you need an extra standard sized shim which is good. However, cam places over in here in NZ leave a lot to be desired in that department IMO

 

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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:08 am 
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they are hydraulic but it depends on how much preload and how much can be removed from a cam before they need shims..
in the ohc engine the lifter retainer limits how much the lifter can extend..
in theory with no retainer the lifter should be able to extend enough to take up the 1.9mm..

i have extra shims fitted with my re grind cam because it makes sense to shim 1.9mm after 1.9mm has been removed from the cam..

but i do know someone who had there engine rebuilt with a regrind cam fitted and no extra shims were used..the engine is as quiet as a std one...

so there is some merit to the theory????
look at std ford, chrysler or holden push rod engines, you can fit a regrind cam without the need for any shims/adjustments, but from memory a pushrod engine lifter has a aprox 2mm pre load so after a re grind there is still enough to take up clearences..
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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:33 am 
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TROYMAN wrote:
they are hydraulic but it depends on how much preload and how much can be removed from a cam before they need shims..
in the ohc engine the lifter retainer limits how much the lifter can extend..
in theory with no retainer the lifter should be able to extend enough to take up the 1.9mm..

i have extra shims fitted with my re grind cam because it makes sense to shim 1.9mm after 1.9mm has been removed from the cam but i do know someone who had there engine rebuilt with a regrind cam fitted and no extra shims were used..the engine is as quiet as a std one...

so there is some merit to the theory????
look at std ford, chrysler or holden push rod engines, you can fit a regrind cam without the need for any shims/adjustments, but from memory a pushrod engine lifter has a aprox 2mm pre load so after a re grind there is still enough to take up clearences..


Sorry Troy no cam grinder removes 1.9 mm of a base circle when they get reground the extra 1.9 thats fitted has taken inconcideration of the amont thats taken off & preload required........ :D
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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:47 am 
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AUXR8 2 wrote:
TROYMAN wrote:
they are hydraulic but it depends on how much preload and how much can be removed from a cam before they need shims..
in the ohc engine the lifter retainer limits how much the lifter can extend..
in theory with no retainer the lifter should be able to extend enough to take up the 1.9mm..

i have extra shims fitted with my re grind cam because it makes sense to shim 1.9mm after 1.9mm has been removed from the cam but i do know someone who had there engine rebuilt with a regrind cam fitted and no extra shims were used..the engine is as quiet as a std one...

so there is some merit to the theory????
look at std ford, chrysler or holden push rod engines, you can fit a regrind cam without the need for any shims/adjustments, but from memory a pushrod engine lifter has a aprox 2mm pre load so after a re grind there is still enough to take up clearences..


Sorry Troy no cam grinder removes 1.9 mm of a base circle when they get reground the extra 1.9 thats fitted has taken inconcideration of the amont thats taken off & preload required........ :D

yea sorry! i should have explaned it better..
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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:49 am 
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no problems..........
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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:19 pm 
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Ok so ask the cam place instead of the engine rebuilder then? might give them a ring

 

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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:28 pm 
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the cam grinder will tell the engine builder how much is taken of the base circle then the engine builder has to work out the preload from there
all my cams stage 2, 2a & 3 require a 1.9mm shim which gives the correct preload as long as the valve tip heights are close the the factory spec again the head builder will check that, with wades cams you have to check with them
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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:00 pm 
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So who do i ask about shims? Engine rebuilder or grinder? I am going to fit the cam myself just want to know what i need etc

 

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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:04 pm 
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has the head being done up ??
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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:08 pm 
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No heads still on car, its a 96dt, hybrid el series motor

 

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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:12 pm 
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ask the cam supplier & make sure you tell the its a hybird/AU cam
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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:15 pm 
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Sweet as, just gave him a call and its $198 for a grind. Would i be better off finding another au cam to grind or use my one? wouldnt mind keeping a standard one for something to fall back on if it runs like crap.... If i was to get another au cam to grind would it need to be tickford or non tickford or dosent matter as itll be getting ground anyway?

 

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 Post subject: Re: cams and shims
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:24 pm 
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did he say any thing about an exchange cam ??..... if not then dont worry, if he wants an exchange find another one & keep yours
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