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Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ? 

 

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 Post subject: Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ?
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:13 pm 
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My number 4 inlet lifter has totally collapsed and I want to swap it myself (too broke to pay mechanic).

I have changed lots of stuff around the motor but never anything inside. I've got the w/shp manual and it looks simple but i dont have torque wrench to do the bolts up 25NM.

Is it really 'not' adviseable to do them up without one. Also there is one thing was unsure of, "Ensure pedestal dowell pins are in place on cyl head" where are these?

Also any other hints / tips in doing the lifter change, ie soak lifter in oil overnight, tape rockers/lifters.

p.s. Yes i have tried replacing oils etc etc, ive had the cover off and this lifter is completely shagged.

cheeers
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 Post subject: Re: Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ?
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:20 pm 
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You could get away without using a torque wrench, but it'd defiantly be better to use one.

Maybe you could borrow one from your local mechanic? I've done that before, or maybe a Fordmods member in your area would lend you one?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ?
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:23 pm 
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Nope - Get a cheap torque wrench matey. s**t should have one for $50 which would be good enough... Or borrow one, surely someone near you wouldn't mind lending you one.

Quick tip -- Coz there is so many bolts to loosen off I recommend getting a 10mm socket into the end of a battery drill and saving yourself a lot of bolt twiddling!

The dowels are like little pegs that sit in little holes and make sure everything is lined up 100% so that you're not relying on the bolts to hold things in position.. As you can imagine, half a mm one way or the other would make a big difference to something spinning at 5500 times a minute.
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 Post subject: Re: Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ?
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:08 pm 
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Yeah would be best to invest in a torque wrench mate. You can do it without one, as i have done on many occasions now with just a basic 3/8 drive socket set and a decent sized breaker bar, but its a gamble. You dont want to do them up too tight/not tight enough and have dramas afterwards - after removing/refitting mine a few times now ive decided to play it safe and renew all the rocker gear bolts, you can never be too safe :lol:

Tips:
- Stuff some rags in the oil galleries in the head to stop anything falling down into there when lifting and removing the rocker gear from the head just incase.
- After you loosen all 28 of the 10mm rocker gear bolts (dont remove the bolts just loosen each of them a few turns) slightly lift the rocker gear up just enough so that each rocker arm can be moved up slightly, and then put some tape around the lifter and rocker arm to hold them in place.
- When refitting the rocker gear, make sure that the rocker gear is lined up and sitting properly over the locating dowels and make sure the rocker gear pedestals are torqued down evenly.
- Make sure that each of the lifters sit in the rocker arms properly as you torque them down, could snap a rocker arm if they happen to fall out a bit and get on an angle

Thats about all i can think of. Oh and make sure that you remove the tape holding the lifter into the rocker arms once you have started torquing the rocker gear down, trust me i learnt the hard way when i had a bit of a brain snap one day. Its not fun loosening all 28 bolts again after you torqued them up just to remove the friggen tape.

Seeing as you are only replacing one lifter, it is possible to do this without removing the rocker gear completely. Ive found that you can loosen the bolts just enough to allow lifters to fall out sometimes but it gets tricky if the shim falls out. Would be best to remove the rocker gear completely though, that way you can check over all the lifters.

To be honest i dont know which method is correct regarding priming or not priming lifters prior to installation. A lot of engine builders and cam places i know of recommend running the lifters without being primed, i.e bleed the lifters of any oil, and let them pump up and adjust themselves. In saying that, ive purchased lifters before from an engine reconditioner/parts place and the lifters were solid when i bought them, and when i pushed a pin down on the ball valve inside the lifter, it bled all the oil out so they were already primed. Therefore i cant say which one would be the correct method.

All i know is, if you want a quieter initial start up after fitting them, prime them in oil first. To prime them submerge the lifter in oil, use a nail/pin to push down on the ball valve through the top of the lifter and pump it till it becomes solid and it no longer pushes out any air bubbles.

Good luck :wink:

 

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 Post subject: Re: Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ?
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:19 pm 
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My tip is slightly different.

I agree with --- You can replace one lifter without removing the whole lot. DO stuff rags in the holes tho - You *will* loose one if you don't and you won't even need the rags there if you do. Sods law, but live with it.

Turn the engine by putting a big socket onto the crank until the offending lifter is at the very top of its travel. When you loosen the bolts (you will need to loosen them all) you should be able to move the rocker up and down enough to get the thing out without having to completely remove everything. Be careful as when you're jiggling and shaking one lifter, all the others with no tension on them will start falling out... Usually they'll just sit on the valve and stay captive, but they can fall out - which then means you gotta loosen more stuff off to put it back in and then you open yourself up to more stuff falling out...!

Anyways, by leaving a lot of the bolts done up and releasing other bolts fully you should be able to keep a good percentage of the rockers keeping pressure on their lifters whilst getting the offending item out.

My tip is to CAREFULLY check all the lifters are sitting flush on the valves and do up the bolts a little, check again, do up some more, check again... Do them up totally, check again... Then turn the socket on the crank so the engine does some complete rotations... Otherwise you could end up with AMATEUR HOUR SYNDROME and have to start replacing rocker arms left right and centre.

(Yeahp, I learn the hard way....) :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ?
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:18 pm 
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i did it without one...still going good after 10months....tho would use torque wrench next time
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 Post subject: Re: Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ?
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:45 pm 
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rdiigen wrote:
My number 4 inlet lifter has totally collapsed and I want to swap it myself (too broke to pay mechanic).

I have changed lots of stuff around the motor but never anything inside. I've got the w/shp manual and it looks simple but i dont have torque wrench to do the bolts up 25NM.

Is it really 'not' adviseable to do them up without one. Also there is one thing was unsure of, "Ensure pedestal dowell pins are in place on cyl head" where are these?

Also any other hints / tips in doing the lifter change, ie soak lifter in oil overnight, tape rockers/lifters.

p.s. Yes i have tried replacing oils etc etc, ive had the cover off and this lifter is completely shagged.

cheeers



I can give you a hand if you like. i have replaced all the rocker gear in my falcon twice, i have all the tools required, torque wrenches, air ratchets etc.
send me an email if you like.

Michael
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 Post subject: Re: Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ?
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:14 am 
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Troy wrote:
i did it without one...still going good after 10months....tho would use torque wrench next time

YOU'D BLOODY BETTER MATE! You're not screwing with that bloody Tickford head I sold you like that. I'll come down there and kick yo a**.
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 Post subject: Re: Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ?
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:47 pm 
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thanks trigger but I changed it yesterday. although cant afford it i bought a wrench from supercheap.

running quiet again thank god. Lost power is back and exhaust back in tune. :lol:

Its quite an easy operation and quick to do. Im surprised that with so many lifter threads that more ppl dont change their own.

Though to add to the answers of my own question. Torque wrench definately needed.
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 Post subject: Re: Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ?
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:17 pm 
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lol fiend nah wont be doing that to the ticky, was just in the da noise was pissin me off.
tho i hope not to have to change the lifters?
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 Post subject: Re: Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ?
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:20 pm 
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I'm not sure mate - Lifters don't actually like being left non moving for ages. That head hasn't ticked over for quite a few months....! It's never been undone though, and I don't even know if it is actually the original XR6 or a lumpier cam under the rocker gear! I advertised it as a XR6 cam, but the engine was a little worked with nice leads and stuff, so you never know!

Anyway, take care of it mate. It was meant to be on mine and supercharged, but you know that already. Ah well, guess this thread is dead and buried now anyways... I see Southland bet Canterbury and took the shield. Wow.
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 Post subject: Re: Can you replace a lifter if you dont have a torque wrench ?
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:33 pm 
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intresting...emailed kelford cams here in chch to do a regrind but might check that one out 1st...don't wanna up compresson but might get it cleaned/checked as might do turbo later.
anywho offtopic...have ya done ya tappets yet? its simple as just make sure u tape the tappets on to the rocker arms...i dropped a couple i want an a** to find them, i couldnt see them but the misses did when i was at work lol
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