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chopped out thrust bearing 

 

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 Post subject: chopped out thrust bearing
Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:55 pm 
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ive just pulled a motor down, its out of an el auto (4l).
the motor has 130k on it and is immaculate except for the fact it has destroyed the thrust bearing, (and badly damaged the crank in the process)

now i casn replace the crank and so forth to make it all work again, but i want to know why it did it in the first place. has anyone got any ideas?
the front side of the bearing is damaged ie asif something was exerting force forward on the crank. if it were a manual i would understand but being an auto leaves me at a loss.


any ideas, or things to check would be welcome...

cheers lads.

mitch

 

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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:01 pm 
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Yeah very strange considering it's an auto, although i did strike the same thing on a 202 blue motor once, i threw another crank in and never had a problem with it.
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:05 pm 
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im hoping the crank had a machining fault from factory which gradually made itself worse, but toward the end it got worse really quick.
i found it because the torque converter bolts started rubbing on the dust covers infront of the bellhousing.. now thats a noise i dont want to hear again.


the motor runs perfect, and the trans is also like new. no noises clunks or anything unfriendly..

-mitch

 

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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:27 am 
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Not a hybrid engine by any chance?
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:48 pm 
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nope good old genuine el

 

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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:55 pm 
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I saw this happen to a 308 Holden V8. It turns out that the guy who built the auto, a Turbo 400, had done something wrong inside, which put an extreme amount of end thrust onto the crank, and stuffed a $1000 stroker crank.

 

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 Post subject: Re: chopped out thrust bearing
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:15 pm 
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mitchg911 wrote:
ive just pulled a motor down, its out of an el auto (4l).
the motor has 130k on it and is immaculate except for the fact it has destroyed the thrust bearing, (and badly damaged the crank in the process)

now i casn replace the crank and so forth to make it all work again, but i want to know why it did it in the first place. has anyone got any ideas?
the front side of the bearing is damaged ie asif something was exerting force forward on the crank. if it were a manual i would understand but being an auto leaves me at a loss.


any ideas, or things to check would be welcome...

cheers lads.

mitch
This was a problem late EF early EL, apparently the bearing material was harder than the crank and it wore the crank out. Most were replaced under factory warranty with as little as 5000k's on them. No option but to replace crank and bearings. When mine went I replaced the motor with an AU.

 

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 Post subject: Re: chopped out thrust bearing
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:22 pm 
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twason wrote:
mitchg911 wrote:
ive just pulled a motor down, its out of an el auto (4l).
the motor has 130k on it and is immaculate except for the fact it has destroyed the thrust bearing, (and badly damaged the crank in the process)

now i casn replace the crank and so forth to make it all work again, but i want to know why it did it in the first place. has anyone got any ideas?
the front side of the bearing is damaged ie asif something was exerting force forward on the crank. if it were a manual i would understand but being an auto leaves me at a loss.


any ideas, or things to check would be welcome...

cheers lads.

mitch
This was a problem late EF early EL, apparently the bearing material was harder than the crank and it wore the crank out. Most were replaced under factory warranty with as little as 5000k's on them. No option but to replace crank and bearings. When mine went I replaced the motor with an AU.


hmmm if it is on Early EL's hopefully it was replaced on mine...if not a new one is going in anyway once the Manual gets put in.

phong =P~

 

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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:44 pm 
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mitchg911 wrote:
im hoping the crank had a machining fault from factory which gradually made itself worse, but toward the end it got worse really quick.
i found it because the torque converter bolts started rubbing on the dust covers infront of the bellhousing.. now thats a noise i dont want to hear again.


the motor runs perfect, and the trans is also like new. no noises clunks or anything unfriendly..

-mitch
so your end float has to be 3-5mm,the box input shaft is to long or the spigot bearing is hanging out,the hole in the crank isnt deep enough for the bearing------one or both caused the thrust forward,you have to find out before you rebuild it.

 

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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:19 pm 
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hans hartman wrote:
mitchg911 wrote:
im hoping the crank had a machining fault from factory which gradually made itself worse, but toward the end it got worse really quick.
i found it because the torque converter bolts started rubbing on the dust covers infront of the bellhousing.. now thats a noise i dont want to hear again.


the motor runs perfect, and the trans is also like new. no noises clunks or anything unfriendly..

-mitch
so your end float has to be 3-5mm,the box input shaft is to long or the spigot bearing is hanging out,the hole in the crank isnt deep enough for the bearing------one or both caused the thrust forward,you have to find out before you rebuild it.
i dont follow you, yes the float is 2-3mm, but the torque converter can slide back and forth on the input shaft, allowing it to rub..





twason, thats the first ive heard of that but i hope your right.(the crank is damaged much worse than the bearing).. ive sorced a new crank and bearings etc, itll be going back together on sunday (provided we dont find anything else a miss.



cheers
mitch

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:00 am 
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cjh wrote:
I saw this happen to a 308 Holden V8. It turns out that the guy who built the auto, a Turbo 400, had done something wrong inside, which put an extreme amount of end thrust onto the crank, and stuffed a $1000 stroker crank.

That makes absolutely no sense at all, you'd think the trans pump would fall to bits before it chewed a crank thrust out.
By that, i mean it would have to have a lot of pressure pushing forward on the convertor, the convertor locks into the oil pump on the trans.
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:24 am 
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mitchg911 wrote:
hans hartman wrote:
mitchg911 wrote:
im hoping the crank had a machining fault from factory which gradually made itself worse, but toward the end it got worse really quick.
i found it because the torque converter bolts started rubbing on the dust covers infront of the bellhousing.. now thats a noise i dont want to hear again.


the motor runs perfect, and the trans is also like new. no noises clunks or anything unfriendly..

-mitch
so your end float has to be 3-5mm,the box input shaft is to long or the spigot bearing is hanging out,the hole in the crank isnt deep enough for the bearing------one or both caused the thrust forward,you have to find out before you rebuild it.
i dont follow you, yes the float is 2-3mm, but the torque converter can slide back and forth on the input shaft, allowing it to rub..





twason, thats the first ive heard of that but i hope your right.(the crank is damaged much worse than the bearing).. ive sorced a new crank and bearings etc, itll be going back together on sunday (provided we dont find anything else a miss.



cheers
mitch
I got the information directly from a mate who was a ford mechanic doing the warranty work at the time. Judging by your description a new crank and bearings will fix this forever.

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:43 pm 
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Walker wrote:
cjh wrote:
I saw this happen to a 308 Holden V8. It turns out that the guy who built the auto, a Turbo 400, had done something wrong inside, which put an extreme amount of end thrust onto the crank, and stuffed a $1000 stroker crank.

That makes absolutely no sense at all, you'd think the trans pump would fall to bits before it chewed a crank thrust out.
By that, i mean it would have to have a lot of pressure pushing forward on the convertor, the convertor locks into the oil pump on the trans.


You heard of that mob called "The 308 Shop". Well, thats where the crank came from ( it was a Harrop ), and thats where it went back to, to get repaired, and they sent back with the crank, a 4 page article on what happens when a TH 350/400 is built incorrectly. Anyway, the auto got repaired by another guy, and the problem hasn't resurfaced since, so you tell me. That engine made 320 RWHP, and would get 500km on a tank city driving with 1/2 tonne of plumbing gear in the back of the HJ ute.
It ran 10.6:1 comp. and ran on PULP, no pinging. This was back in '96.

 

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