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 Post subject: CMS Stage 4
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:10 pm 
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Anyone got any experience with a CMS Stage 4 head job? At 2grand I'm assuming it's a lot of work. Obviously I have spoken to Joe regarding it, but it's nice to get an opinion/feedback/comment from a third party uninvolved.
the stage 4 head is $1985.00what you get is................ full head service new modified oversize inlet valves new oversize exhaust valves h/d retainers & collets h/d valve springs extensive porting & polishing

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:18 pm 
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Id be interested to know how much extra the head flow over std and also how much of a gain u are getting with the oversize valves..

also I would have thought that extreme porting is only useful if youve got a big duration/lift cam to go with it

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:13 pm 
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gogetta wrote:
Id be interested to know how much extra the head flow over std and also how much of a gain u are getting with the oversize valves..

also I would have thought that extreme porting is only useful if youve got a big duration/lift cam to go with it


In my case it's going to be a VCT head and will have 9psi getting pushed into it.

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:21 pm 
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why u want a "VCT" head specifically?

Just for the cam adv/ret feature or do they flow better

can u add VCT to a non-VCT head or is there major casting differences on the front where the VCT mechanism goes?

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:12 pm 
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gogetta wrote:
why u want a "VCT" head specifically?

Just for the cam adv/ret feature or do they flow better

can u add VCT to a non-VCT head or is there major casting differences on the front where the VCT mechanism goes?


With the VCT I should be able to improve low down torque (before the blower starts boosting) and still get the power up high when there's boost.
You can't add VCT to a non-VCT head - need the entire replacement.

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:34 pm 
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gogetta wrote:
Id be interested to know how much extra the head flow over std and also how much of a gain u are getting with the oversize valves..

also I would have thought that extreme porting is only useful if youve got a big duration/lift cam to go with it


larger valves equate directly to increased torque. in a biiig way.

"So what produced this Avenger’s steam engine like low speed torque and race winning top end? It was not small intake valves as some suggested. It was not a reconfiguration of the engines big bore short stroke to a small bore, long stroke. Nor was it countless other erroneous old wives tales for moves that are supposed to produce a torquey engine. For the record straight long strokes do not make more low speed torque than short strokes. I can disprove the ‘it must make more torque because of the long arm’ fallacy both mathematically and from dyno tests. Also the valve size thing cropped up so many times I was ready to about tear my hair out. I was even fed this size the valves for the power band fallacy at a Superflow Conference. I am going to be really categoric about this that to make best low speed torque the engine needs the valves to be as big as can be crammed into the space available. "

taken from....

http://www.gofastnews.com/board/technic ... amics.html

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:51 pm 
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what i was trying to get at is....does a good flowing head give much extra power if its limited by a small cam?

as far as i can see the four extremes are :

big heads small cam
big heads big cam
small heads small cam
small heads big cam

ive seen in some cases that porting actually reduces head flow at low lifts...of course you will have greater flow at higher lift but if the cam never gets there its wasted....

so im thinking that if you have huge head flows but keep the cam relatively tame you will be loosing a lot of potential power and wasting a lot of money...

so i would think cam selection is very important variable when porting

this is not my opinion its just a question really as I dont know the answer to this

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:28 am 
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I'd be going for headwork that is something along the lines of what the Saloon cars have, ie, very little done.
Multi angle valve cut, some chamber work and thats about it.
You don't want massive ports if you are trying to maintain low down torque.
Neither the blower or the VCT will be able to compensate for s**t low-lift flow figures.

Having said that, I've never seen a VCT head, so I have no idea on how good the casting is :P
Ford might have gone massively backwards LOL

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:44 pm 
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Steady ED wrote:
I'd be going for headwork that is something along the lines of what the Saloon cars have, ie, very little done.
Multi angle valve cut, some chamber work and thats about it.
You don't want massive ports if you are trying to maintain low down torque.
Neither the blower or the VCT will be able to compensate for s**t low-lift flow figures.

Having said that, I've never seen a VCT head, so I have no idea on how good the casting is :P
Ford might have gone massively backwards LOL


who are you getting the porting done by??

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:02 pm 
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a good port job should improve flow through the entire lift range, from 50thou up. obviously some heads that can't be done, the falcon heads is one that high lift flow is hard to get. IE: flow tappers fast after about 500thou

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:28 am 
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im running stage 2 head and cam in my car and couldnt be happier. i have plenty of power all the way to the limiter..

im very happy (ive had mine for 2.5-3 yrs and havent had any troubles) and Joe is a great bloke to get work done through.

i know its no stage 4 but thats my experieces with st2

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:07 pm 
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ReGiE wrote:
im running stage 2 head and cam in my car and couldnt be happier. i have plenty of power all the way to the limiter..

im very happy (ive had mine for 2.5-3 yrs and havent had any troubles) and Joe is a great bloke to get work done through.

i know its no stage 4 but thats my experieces with st2


what sort of work does the stg2 involve??

how mild/hot is the cam??

how would u describe the change...is it much more sluggish down low?

 

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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:03 pm 
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gogetta wrote:

how would u describe the change...is it much more sluggish down low?


doubt it if it came from joe... if anything id say a good increase in torque. His stage 2 cam is better than a dev3hl from what ive heard and is comparable to a dev5.

Id travel to sydney just to get the cam done in my falc by joe. Is the only place ive ever heard 100% positive feedback.

 

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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:20 pm 
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gogetta wrote:
ReGiE wrote:
im running stage 2 head and cam in my car and couldnt be happier. i have plenty of power all the way to the limiter..

im very happy (ive had mine for 2.5-3 yrs and havent had any troubles) and Joe is a great bloke to get work done through.

i know its no stage 4 but thats my experieces with st2


what sort of work does the stg2 involve??

how mild/hot is the cam??

how would u describe the change...is it much more sluggish down low?
there was a massive improvement. more power/torque down low and just keeps delivering all the way to the limiter.
the st2 head is very similaar to the tickford head with mild porting, O/S valves etc etc.
But yeah the cam runs on std computer perfectly and i wouldnt fault it

 

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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:19 pm 
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i'm the same as regie. am running stg2 head and 2cam. all i can say is big power and torgue increase.mine comes in at 2100rpm and runs right till it bounces 6000rpm. we had a guy with a dev5 kit that ran 129rwkw and me and regie both running 143rwkw,regie's torque 345rwnm and mine 367rwnm,regie's manual mine auto. my highes reading is 149rwkw now with nothing else done and has been in the car for 3 years now. so all good stuff from joe he know's his sh*t when it comes to fords....

 

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