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Copper intake pipe progress pics! 

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:09 pm 
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stockstandard wrote:
riyder wrote:
and the heat issue well copper is also one of the best heat dissapaters going second only to aluminium, but i figure you'll have a rubber boot as a vibration absorber and for alignment so heat transfer to where ever will be minimal , and hang on thats right air will be rushin thru it so should all go well


argggggg bloody hell!!

As I said in the other post heat dissipation is BAD - it means that copper will absorb engine heat and dissipate it into the intake faster. Aluminium is less conductive than copper as well (copper conducts 70% more heat than aluminium and is second only to silver).

tickford_6 wrote:
it's not going to get any hotter then any other metal intake will. there is only so much heat in the engine bay, it's just the copper will heat up a bit faster.


It will heat up to the same temperature but because it is more far more conductive than other metals it is going to transfer MUCH more of that heat to the intake.

Saiken wrote:
yeah, but did you guys forget that stainless steel is a great conductor of heat, it heats up hell fast and takes ages to cool down, i know this as i have used stainless steel hot plates before when out bush......


and copper conducts heat 25X better than stainless steel so imagine how hot this thing is going to get.

There is no way around it using copper for an intake pipe is a REALLY REALLY bad idea. Its like wrapping your intake in an electric blanket!


for that 1/4 of a KW, does it mater?

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:44 pm 
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I thought copper is more heavier? NOT light...?
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:54 pm 
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looks good franks
just don't put up with there neg coments
do what you want

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:59 pm 
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He can do what he pleases, but like everyone else would say, copper is not a good material for induction, he will be getting 3inchs of possible air, but along with hot air induction, so if theres an advantage, it would be a small advantage and prob not noticable and not worth it? what everone else thinks?
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:01 pm 
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efbignik 98rwkw is a stock ef/el?
and is 16.27secs stock as well?
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:07 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
for that 1/4 of a KW, does it mater?


Air density drops 1% for every 2.8 degrees C.

For every 1% drop in density there is about a 0.8% drop in power

So for a stock 157fwkw I6, every 2.8 degrees extra takes about 1.2kw of power. I wouldnt know exactly what sort of temperature increases you will get from a copper pipe but 5-10 degrees wouldnt surprise me. Thats a about 1.5-3kw loss.

My suggestion now that you have gone ahead with a copper intake is to invest in heat wrap

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:54 pm 
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stockstandard wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
for that 1/4 of a KW, does it mater?


Air density drops 1% for every 2.8 degrees C.

For every 1% drop in density there is about a 0.8% drop in power

So for a stock 157fwkw I6, every 2.8 degrees extra takes about 1.2kw of power. I wouldnt know exactly what sort of temperature increases you will get from a copper pipe but 5-10 degrees wouldnt surprise me. Thats a about 1.5-3kw loss.

My suggestion now that you have gone ahead with a copper intake is to invest in heat wrap


and then look at how many people see do difference when they use a cold air intake and no one seems to argue the point of density and power there. but some one comes up with what might be good or bad idea, (remember not everything you do your car must equal a power gain. frank might just like the look of it when it's polished) and you all rag on him about it. the increased airflow could very well offset that 1.5 to 3 kw decrease and come out even on power. who cares if frank like the look.
it's his car


it's no different to you wasting money on 24 pound injectors when your car doesn't make enough power to need them.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:14 pm 
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funny, everyone saying this is a bad idea because itll heat up and cause power loss.

yet when people have asked about cooling their intake pipe with dry ice, or a cooling system the responce has been "the fraction of a second the air is in the intake pipe wont give it enough time to cool it at all:

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:20 pm 
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i reackon if it works it works but in my opinon (this is just me talking) could you have don this in normal exhaust pipe or is this more cost effective??

i assume this piping is going on ef el. if it is ef bad idea is copper heats up faster wouldn't it heat the bonnet faster as well? and looking at the front of a ef there is not grill type of thing inbetween the lights but el it might work better cause the el has a grill??

oh well i might be way off. but any way this copper thing would be good on high ways cause more air is circulating around the engine bay but summer and stooping starting would be hot.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:23 pm 
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Gaz wrote:
funny, everyone saying this is a bad idea because itll heat up and cause power loss.

yet when people have asked about cooling their intake pipe with dry ice, or a cooling system the responce has been "the fraction of a second the air is in the intake pipe wont give it enough time to cool it at all:


yes what i was thinking...

Hey frank good idea and stuff those negative comments. Maybe some people here are willing to try new things, show what they have done and learnt from it. Personally if i wanted to get blasted i would go to a commodore forum and brag about my EF GLi.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:27 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
and then look at how many people see do difference when they use a cold air intake and no one seems to argue the point of density and power there. but some one comes up with what might be good or bad idea, (remember not everything you do your car must equal a power gain. frank might just like the look of it when it's polished) and you all rag on him about it. the increased airflow could very well offset that 1.5 to 3 kw decrease and come out even on power. who cares if frank like the look.
it's his car


In terms of the design of this intake it does the same thing all the other do. What is different about it is that it is made of copper, and the point that I am making is that this is a bad idea because it will reduce its performance. I stated this sometime ago, and all most posts since then have been correcting others incorrect opinions (including yours) on the properties of copper.

tickford_6 wrote:
it's no different to you wasting money on 24 pound injectors when your car doesn't make enough power to need them.


But I do need them - my engine was hitting 100% duty cycle with stock injectors at 4500rpm and now with the 24's it gets 96% duty cycle at 5500rpm+ so they are still to small.

In the future please dont feel obligated to share your uninformed and incorrect opinions on my engine with me.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:32 pm 
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:34 pm 
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Gaz wrote:
funny, everyone saying this is a bad idea because itll heat up and cause power loss.

yet when people have asked about cooling their intake pipe with dry ice, or a cooling system the responce has been "the fraction of a second the air is in the intake pipe wont give it enough time to cool it at all:


There is a difference in these two cases.

If the air comming into the engine bay is 20 odd degrees, and the engine bay is 60 odd degrees (which will be the same temp a copper pipe will be at), that is a 40 degree difference. To get the same affect in reverse your talking about cooling the entire air intake to -20 degrees for the same 1.5-3kw power difference. Thats a fair bit of effort for a small gain which is why its not worth it.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:36 pm 
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stockstandard wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
and then look at how many people see do difference when they use a cold air intake and no one seems to argue the point of density and power there. but some one comes up with what might be good or bad idea, (remember not everything you do your car must equal a power gain. frank might just like the look of it when it's polished) and you all rag on him about it. the increased airflow could very well offset that 1.5 to 3 kw decrease and come out even on power. who cares if frank like the look.
it's his car


In terms of the design of this intake it does the same thing all the other do. What is different about it is that it is made of copper, and the point that I am making is that this is a bad idea because it will reduce its performance. I stated this sometime ago, and all most posts since then have been correcting others incorrect opinions (including yours) on the properties of copper.

tickford_6 wrote:
it's no different to you wasting money on 24 pound injectors when your car doesn't make enough power to need them.


But I do need them - my engine was hitting 100% duty cycle with stock injectors at 4500rpm and now with the 24's it gets 96% duty cycle at 5500rpm+ so they are still to small.

In the future please dont feel obligated to share your uninformed and incorrect opinions on my engine with me.



so you need them, but JMM can get the power they do with stock injectors.
interesting. so how far past 180rwkw have you gone to need the injectors?
i also recall you in an other thread that you didn't need the bigger injectors you only bought them because you didn't like the duty of the old ones. but now you claim you realy did need them. so which one is it?


and i havn't made a comment on the properties of copper.
all i said is it will reacht he same temp as any other metal intake. because there is only so much heat available under the bonnet. It can't get any hotter then the air around it.
and you seem to leave out my comment on NOT EVERY MOD HAS TO INCREASE POWER. If frank like the look of polished copper what make it so bad?



In the future please dont feel obligated to change you statment to suit your self all the time and incorrect opinions other have as to some thing being a waste of time because it looks good but will drop power by an amount that you can't feel or accuratly measure

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:37 pm 
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stockstandard wrote:
Gaz wrote:
funny, everyone saying this is a bad idea because itll heat up and cause power loss.

yet when people have asked about cooling their intake pipe with dry ice, or a cooling system the responce has been "the fraction of a second the air is in the intake pipe wont give it enough time to cool it at all:


There is a difference in these two cases.

If the air comming into the engine bay is 20 odd degrees, and the engine bay is 60 odd degrees (which will be the same temp a copper pipe will be at), that is a 40 degree difference. To get the same affect in reverse your talking about cooling the entire air intake to -20 degrees for the same 1.5-3kw power difference. Thats a fair bit of effort for a small gain which is why its not worth it.


how cold is dry ice?

 

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