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Copper intake pipe progress pics! 

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:42 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
stockstandard wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
and then look at how many people see do difference when they use a cold air intake and no one seems to argue the point of density and power there. but some one comes up with what might be good or bad idea, (remember not everything you do your car must equal a power gain. frank might just like the look of it when it's polished) and you all rag on him about it. the increased airflow could very well offset that 1.5 to 3 kw decrease and come out even on power. who cares if frank like the look.
it's his car


In terms of the design of this intake it does the same thing all the other do. What is different about it is that it is made of copper, and the point that I am making is that this is a bad idea because it will reduce its performance. I stated this sometime ago, and all most posts since then have been correcting others incorrect opinions (including yours) on the properties of copper.

tickford_6 wrote:
it's no different to you wasting money on 24 pound injectors when your car doesn't make enough power to need them.


But I do need them - my engine was hitting 100% duty cycle with stock injectors at 4500rpm and now with the 24's it gets 96% duty cycle at 5500rpm+ so they are still to small.

In the future please dont feel obligated to share your uninformed and incorrect opinions on my engine with me.



so you need them, but JMM can get the power they do with stock injectors.
interesting. so how far past 180rwkw have you gone to need the injectors?
i also recall you in an other thread that you didn't need the bigger injectors you only bought them because you didn't like the duty of the old ones. but now you claim you realy did need them. so which one is it?


and i havn't made a comment on the properties of copper.
all i said is it will reacht he same temp as any other metal intake. because there is only so much heat available under the bonnet. It can't get any hotter then the air around it.
and you seem to leave out my comment on NOT EVERY MOD HAS TO INCREASE POWER. If frank like the look of polished copper what make it so bad?



In the future please dont feel obligated to change you statment to suit your self all the time and incorrect opinions other have as to some thing being a waste of time because it looks good but will drop power by an amount that you can't feel or accuratly measure


Youre quite right, eventually both intake metals will reach the same temperature, but the copper one will transfer more of that heat to the incoming air charge as it dissipates the heat quicker.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:43 pm 
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Andrew J wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
stockstandard wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
and then look at how many people see do difference when they use a cold air intake and no one seems to argue the point of density and power there. but some one comes up with what might be good or bad idea, (remember not everything you do your car must equal a power gain. frank might just like the look of it when it's polished) and you all rag on him about it. the increased airflow could very well offset that 1.5 to 3 kw decrease and come out even on power. who cares if frank like the look.
it's his car


In terms of the design of this intake it does the same thing all the other do. What is different about it is that it is made of copper, and the point that I am making is that this is a bad idea because it will reduce its performance. I stated this sometime ago, and all most posts since then have been correcting others incorrect opinions (including yours) on the properties of copper.

tickford_6 wrote:
it's no different to you wasting money on 24 pound injectors when your car doesn't make enough power to need them.


But I do need them - my engine was hitting 100% duty cycle with stock injectors at 4500rpm and now with the 24's it gets 96% duty cycle at 5500rpm+ so they are still to small.

In the future please dont feel obligated to share your uninformed and incorrect opinions on my engine with me.



so you need them, but JMM can get the power they do with stock injectors.
interesting. so how far past 180rwkw have you gone to need the injectors?
i also recall you in an other thread that you didn't need the bigger injectors you only bought them because you didn't like the duty of the old ones. but now you claim you realy did need them. so which one is it?


and i havn't made a comment on the properties of copper.
all i said is it will reacht he same temp as any other metal intake. because there is only so much heat available under the bonnet. It can't get any hotter then the air around it.
and you seem to leave out my comment on NOT EVERY MOD HAS TO INCREASE POWER. If frank like the look of polished copper what make it so bad?



In the future please dont feel obligated to change you statment to suit your self all the time and incorrect opinions other have as to some thing being a waste of time because it looks good but will drop power by an amount that you can't feel or accuratly measure


Youre quite right, eventually both intake metals will reach the same temperature, but the copper one will transfer more of that heat to the incoming air charge as it dissipates the heat quicker.


how hot does the copper surface have to get before it starts to turb multicoulerd? from memory it doesnt take long at all
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:49 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
so you need them, but JMM can get the power they do with stock injectors.
interesting. so how far past 180rwkw have you gone to need the injectors?
i also recall you in an other thread that you didn't need the bigger injectors you only bought them because you didn't like the duty of the old ones. but now you claim you realy did need them. so which one is it?


lol, ok I could have stuck with the stock as the AFR wasnt going dangerously high and I could have just as easily put a higher pressure fuel reg on. This is in fact EXACTLY what JMM do with the dev 4 and 5's. Read the articles on the JMM website and you will find that in 2 places they mention the need to run higher fuel pressure on dev 4 and 5 engines for proper fueling.

tickford_6 wrote:
and i havn't made a comment on the properties of copper.
all i said is it will reacht he same temp as any other metal intake. because there is only so much heat available under the bonnet. It can't get any hotter then the air around it.


Saying that copper gets to the same temp as other metals is misleading in this discussion. Yes it will get to the same temperature but it will pass more of this to the air inside the pipe - so the air comming out will be hotter.

tickford_6 wrote:
and you seem to leave out my comment on NOT EVERY MOD HAS TO INCREASE POWER. If frank like the look of polished copper what make it so bad?

In the future please dont feel obligated to change you statment to suit your self all the time and incorrect opinions other have as to some thing being a waste of time because it looks good but will drop power by an amount that you can't feel or accuratly measure


If he wanted it to look good he would have bought one of your s/s pipes

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:55 pm 
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i have read all of the JMM articles. and know exactly what they do with feul.


but again i ask you how is doing this copper intake to come out with what is most likly going to be no change in power and different to you buying bigger injectors that you have admitted were not needed.
it's no different. you both spent money for minimal out come,

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:01 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
i have read all of the JMM articles. and know exactly what they do with feul.


but again i ask you how is doing this copper intake to come out with what is most likly going to be no change in power and different to you buying bigger injectors that you have admitted were not needed.
it's no different. you both spent money for minimal out come,


hmmm, maybe ill try to use simpler language...

copper intake hot

hot intake bad

100% duty cycle bad

lower duty cycle good

bigger injectors good

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:04 pm 
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From: http://www.jimmockmotorsport.com/articl ... xh_ute.php
Quote:
DEV4 also has its own cam profile with upgrade valve springs while the fuelling department receives a remanufactured fuel pressure regulator. The remanufactured regulator helps achieve the appropriate mixtures, but ignition timing remains unaltered (except for across-the-board adjustment of the dizzy). These changes push power up to 160kW at the wheels


So they need more fuel pressure to hit 160rwkw

now I hope we can stop talking about my god damn injectors!

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:11 pm 
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stockstandard wrote:
From: http://www.jimmockmotorsport.com/articl ... xh_ute.php
Quote:
DEV4 also has its own cam profile with upgrade valve springs while the fuelling department receives a remanufactured fuel pressure regulator. The remanufactured regulator helps achieve the appropriate mixtures, but ignition timing remains unaltered (except for across-the-board adjustment of the dizzy). These changes push power up to 160kW at the wheels


So they need more fuel pressure to hit 160rwkw

now I hope we can stop talking about my god damn injectors!


they also use the same pressure reg to hit 180.

but then if you want to spend a heap of cash on injectors and an ECU go for it.


just like if frank wants to build a copper intake he should go for it. at least he is trying some him self.

and on that note, frank feel free to take your thread back

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:21 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
stockstandard wrote:
From: http://www.jimmockmotorsport.com/articl ... xh_ute.php
Quote:
DEV4 also has its own cam profile with upgrade valve springs while the fuelling department receives a remanufactured fuel pressure regulator. The remanufactured regulator helps achieve the appropriate mixtures, but ignition timing remains unaltered (except for across-the-board adjustment of the dizzy). These changes push power up to 160kW at the wheels


So they need more fuel pressure to hit 160rwkw

now I hope we can stop talking about my god damn injectors!


they also use the same pressure reg to hit 180.

but then if you want to spend a heap of cash on injectors and an ECU go for it.


just like if frank wants to build a copper intake he should go for it. at least he is trying some him self.

and on that note, frank feel free to take your thread back


180rwmw?

Simple fact is 19lb injectors @ 275kpa are NOT upto the task of supplying enough fuel to engines with more than about 145rwkw. I max them out at arround 4200rpm.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:39 pm 
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ffs u 2 get the f**k out of my thread!

stop arguing

i swear i will buy a temp guage and take readings before and after ffs

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:54 pm 
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i give you some watts
watt watt watt watt watt watt watt watt watt watt watt watt watt watt watt

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:34 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
they also use the same pressure reg to hit 180.

but then if you want to spend a heap of cash on injectors and an ECU go for it.


just like if frank wants to build a copper intake he should go for it. at least he is trying some him self.

and on that note, frank feel free to take your thread back


WTF HAVE INJECTORS GOT TO DO WITH AN INTAKE PIPE.
STFU!

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:19 pm 
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uh if u goin for looks then it should look cool all shiny....but if it worked in favor of perfmance it would have been done already

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:24 pm 
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Quote:
uh if u goin for looks then it should look cool all shiny....but if it worked in favor of perfmance it would have been done already


hey you might be right, but lets see how his car preforms in about 2 weeks or a good long day driving around.

probaly see a thread " my car is slughish" or " temp gueage off the roof"

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:48 pm 
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Hey Frank. Long time no see. hehehe

You could get it HPC coated when you're finished. That'd make a few ppl stop their comments about heat transfer through the copper.

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:08 am 
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Epitome wrote:
Hey Frank. Long time no see. hehehe

You could get it HPC coated when you're finished. That'd make a few ppl stop their comments about heat transfer through the copper.


hey man tis a long time!

i really dont care what they say :)


hows that bunky of yours? and were ya been hiding!

 

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