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Dashpot on EL XR6? 

 

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 Post subject: Dashpot on EL XR6?
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:08 pm 
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Hi guys,

Do EF/EL Falcons have something called a 'Dashpot' on the throttle body?

If so, what does it look like & where is it located?

My understanding is that it controls the rate of rev drop/deceleration when the throttle is closed ...am I right?

I'm having the following probs with my 5-spd manual EL XR6 (Dev 5 rebuilt):

After changing down from 2nd-1st coming to a set of lights, the revs sometimes sit up at 1000-1500 rpm for 10-15 secs (even though I'm out of gear or virtually stopped), and then it suddenly drops to base idle of 750 rpm quite quickly & then it idles fine!

Yesterday I started the car in the driveway (in Neutral, handbrake on) and gave it a rev on the accelerator for my mate to listen to, ...the revs went up appropriately, but then on the way back down the revs stuck on 2000 rpm for a good 20-30 secs without me even touching the car! :(

So there it was, sat there in Neutral, happily revving itself out at 2000 rpm for 20-30 secs before dropping quite quickly back down to 750 rpm again.

What the f**k is going on with this? Could it be the dashpot setting or what? :?

Anyone else experience similar probs with their manual EL's?

Help me out guys, ...'cos this is spoiling the enjoyment of my new beast! :(

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:13 pm 
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The ISC is what your talking about.
I've been in a Dev5 cammed EF XR6 that does the same thing.
Dunno if the member who owns this car fixed it or not.

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:27 pm 
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Steady ED wrote:
The ISC is what your talking about.
I've been in a Dev5 cammed EF XR6 that does the same thing.
Dunno if the member who owns this car fixed it or not.


I don't think it's the ISC mate, because I've seen it on FordForums described as follows:

"The dash pot is located on your throttle body....
Its the round thing that has a white plastic pin at the bottom of it works like a slow action spring to slow down your deceleration... it is there to stop the throttle from shutting quickly and creating a rich condition in the engine for split second from which you can have the symptoms that you describing.
It also reduces the jerking during the gearchanges, as it keep the revs up for long enough until you change the gear.
With the age the dash pot losses its spring functionality and need to be adjusted to compensate for this.
The way you adjust this device is by loosening the 17mm bolt and turn the dash pot clockwise to increase the tension.
Take the car for a drive and see if gear changes are smooth and the car doesn't jerk as much during the gear changes.
If the you find that the engine is over-revving during the gearchanges then you need to turn the dash post anti-clockwise to loosen the tension...
With bit of trial and error not only you will have your problem solved but also might achieve a lot smoother gear changes"

There you go, ...any ideas now?

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:43 pm 
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markr154 wrote:
Steady ED wrote:
The ISC is what your talking about.
I've been in a Dev5 cammed EF XR6 that does the same thing.
Dunno if the member who owns this car fixed it or not.


I don't think it's the ISC mate, because I've seen it on FordForums described as follows:

"The dash pot is located on your throttle body....
Its the round thing that has a white plastic pin at the bottom of it works like a slow action spring to slow down your deceleration... it is there to stop the throttle from shutting quickly and creating a rich condition in the engine for split second from which you can have the symptoms that you describing.
It also reduces the jerking during the gearchanges, as it keep the revs up for long enough until you change the gear.
With the age the dash pot losses its spring functionality and need to be adjusted to compensate for this.
The way you adjust this device is by loosening the 17mm bolt and turn the dash pot clockwise to increase the tension.
Take the car for a drive and see if gear changes are smooth and the car doesn't jerk as much during the gear changes.
If the you find that the engine is over-revving during the gearchanges then you need to turn the dash post anti-clockwise to loosen the tension...
With bit of trial and error not only you will have your problem solved but also might achieve a lot smoother gear changes"

There you go, ...any ideas now?


it is the ISC becuase they don't have a dashpot. unplug your ISC reset your idle to 800 with out he isc conected then go for a drive.
your car will prove my point for me

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:59 pm 
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OK...the way I see it.

1. Unplug the ISC
2. Start the car
3. Adjust base idle screw until car is idling happily at 800 rpm
4. Turn off engine
5. Reconnect ISC
6. Start car again & take it for a drive for noticeable improvement!

Is this sequence right?

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:13 pm 
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markr154 wrote:
OK...the way I see it.

1. Unplug the ISC
2. Start the car
3. Adjust base idle screw until car is idling happily at 800 rpm
4. Turn off engine
5. Reconnect ISC
6. Start car again & take it for a drive for noticeable improvement!

Is this sequence right?


leave the ISC unlpuged.

1. unplug ISC
2.start the car (it might not start in which case screw the idle adjuster in abit and try again)
3. adjust idle until the idle is happy, between 800rpm and 1000rpm.
4. turn off engine
5. start it and go for a drive.

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:23 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
markr154 wrote:
OK...the way I see it.

1. Unplug the ISC
2. Start the car
3. Adjust base idle screw until car is idling happily at 800 rpm
4. Turn off engine
5. Reconnect ISC
6. Start car again & take it for a drive for noticeable improvement!

Is this sequence right?


leave the ISC unlpuged.

1. unplug ISC
2.start the car (it might not start in which case screw the idle adjuster in abit and try again)
3. adjust idle until the idle is happy, between 800rpm and 1000rpm.
4. turn off engine
5. start it and go for a drive.


So you're saying leave the ISC disconnected PERMANENTLY, even after adjusting the idle screw?

What about for future starts, ...will it still start OK cold without any ISC?

What about the idling if the AirCon is switched on without any ISC?

 

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QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:30 pm 
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markr154 wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
markr154 wrote:
OK...the way I see it.

1. Unplug the ISC
2. Start the car
3. Adjust base idle screw until car is idling happily at 800 rpm
4. Turn off engine
5. Reconnect ISC
6. Start car again & take it for a drive for noticeable improvement!

Is this sequence right?


leave the ISC unlpuged.

1. unplug ISC
2.start the car (it might not start in which case screw the idle adjuster in abit and try again)
3. adjust idle until the idle is happy, between 800rpm and 1000rpm.
4. turn off engine
5. start it and go for a drive.


So you're saying leave the ISC disconnected PERMANENTLY, even after adjusting the idle screw?

What about for future starts, ...will it still start OK cold without any ISC?

What about the idling if the AirCon is switched on without any ISC?



AC will be a problem, cold should be fine.
but you realy only have three options.
AC problems
revs hanging
buy an aftermakrter ECU and have it tuned.

the 3rd is best option, because the problems stems from a modified engine with a stock ecu.

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:45 pm 
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Thanks mate.

I guess I could disconnect the ISC & adjust the screw so the revs don't hang in the meantime ...and NOT switch on the A/C as it's winter anyways ...or drive around with the A/C on all the time!

I actually spoke to Barry at Batten's Performance Tuning today about this.

He said it's likely that the dashpot adjustment is out or something, and that he could use a 'tweaker' to re-tune the stock ECU. Would cost about $1000, but he said he definitely could fix it!

Whaddyareckon?

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:51 pm 
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markr154 wrote:
Thanks mate.

I guess I could disconnect the ISC & adjust the screw so the revs don't hang in the meantime ...and NOT switch on the A/C as it's winter anyways ...or drive around with the A/C on all the time!

I actually spoke to Barry at Batten's Performance Tuning today about this.

He said it's likely that the dashpot adjustment is out or something, and that he could use a 'tweaker' to re-tune the stock ECU. Would cost about $1000, but he said he definitely could fix it!

Whaddyareckon?


yeah they don't have dashpot, the function is tunned in the ecu and it uses the ISC to carry it out. thats why unpluging it stops the hanging.

if you going to pay $1000 might as well save a bit more cash and get something you can retune everything with. then you pick up power and driveablity across most of the revs

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:59 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
markr154 wrote:
Thanks mate.

I guess I could disconnect the ISC & adjust the screw so the revs don't hang in the meantime ...and NOT switch on the A/C as it's winter anyways ...or drive around with the A/C on all the time!

I actually spoke to Barry at Batten's Performance Tuning today about this.

He said it's likely that the dashpot adjustment is out or something, and that he could use a 'tweaker' to re-tune the stock ECU. Would cost about $1000, but he said he definitely could fix it!

Whaddyareckon?


yeah they don't have dashpot, the function is tunned in the ecu and it uses the ISC to carry it out. thats why unpluging it stops the hanging.

if you going to pay $1000 might as well save a bit more cash and get something you can retune everything with. then you pick up power and driveablity across most of the revs


Thanks mate, ...you've been a big help!

Just a thought, ...couldn't I just disconnect the ISC, & adjust the idle with the A/C ON? But then I suppose the idle will be a little high with the A/C off..

Yeah, will have a crack at unplugging the ISC etc. to get rid of the hanging in the meantime, ...and then get BPT to take a look at it!

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:59 pm 
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If Barry at BPT can twEEC (twEECer originated in the US, mostly supports EB-ED 5L ECU's. XR9UTE I believe has been working on more support for EF-EL, wasnt aware of any advances with the 6's though) the ISC settings, he obviously has some sort of support for your ECU's catch code?
Is a good option if you can get it!
Tuning the factory ECU.
twEECer functions very similar to what I theorise the CAPA 'Flash' tuner will...

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:00 pm 
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markr154 wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
markr154 wrote:
Thanks mate.


I guess I could disconnect the ISC & adjust the screw so the revs don't hang in the meantime ...and NOT switch on the A/C as it's winter anyways ...or drive around with the A/C on all the time!

I actually spoke to Barry at Batten's Performance Tuning today about this.

He said it's likely that the dashpot adjustment is out or something, and that he could use a 'tweaker' to re-tune the stock ECU. Would cost about $1000, but he said he definitely could fix it!

Whaddyareckon?


yeah they don't have dashpot, the function is tunned in the ecu and it uses the ISC to carry it out. thats why unpluging it stops the hanging.

if you going to pay $1000 might as well save a bit more cash and get something you can retune everything with. then you pick up power and driveablity across most of the revs


Thanks mate, ...you've been a big help!

Just a thought, ...couldn't I just disconnect the ISC, & adjust the idle with the A/C ON? But then I suppose the idle will be a little high with the A/C off..

Yeah, will have a crack at unplugging the ISC etc. to get rid of the hanging in the meantime, ...and then get BPT to take a look at it!



that would be the best way to go.

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:04 pm 
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Steady ED wrote:
If Barry at BPT can twEEC (twEECer originated in the US, mostly supports EB-ED 5L ECU's. XR9UTE I believe has been working on more support for EF-EL, wasnt aware of any advances with the 6's though) the ISC settings, he obviously has some sort of support for your ECU's catch code?
Is a good option if you can get it!
Tuning the factory ECU.
twEECer functions very similar to what I theorise the CAPA 'Flash' tuner will...


Haha, twEECer ...that's it!

Yeah, he's asked me to check & give him my ECU catch code so he can prepare something ...so he must have SOMETHING up his sleeve!

 

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QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:42 pm 
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your car DOES have a dashpot!

all faclon 6's with the bbm manifold have a dashpot it is used to switch from long to short runners and vice versa :)

look at the front of the intake manifold it will have a rubber hose goign to it :)

 

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