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DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES? 

 

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 Post subject: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:15 pm 
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As the subject says.

 

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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:25 pm 
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Yes. I was speaking to the department of transport today and they said if the motor was not avaliable on your model of car you need a mod plate
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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:32 pm 
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If you stay NA, Probably not as it is still the basic 4.0l 6 cyl OHC (though double OHC) Engine that the E series as well as the AU's had. You do not need a certificate to install an AU engine, VCT or otherwise in an E series. If you fit a Turbo Barra Engine that will be a different matter as no E series left the Factory with Forced induction.
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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:41 pm 
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Ring Queensland Transport, be prepared for a headache though.

Short answer, yes.

 

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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:50 pm 
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well down here in vic (or so my mate recon's) it's fine to put a later model N/A engine into an e series as long as it uses the original mounting point's and no structual part of the car has been modified, so if u have to cut the k frame, i would say that u do have to get it enginered.

 

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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:01 pm 
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They even said that with the engine swap you need to use the factory gearbox for that motor.

also they told me I need a mod plate because I have an EL xr6 motor in my EL wagon and there were no EL xr6 wagons, but because its a tickford motor and that motor was in some fairmont wagons and the fairmont is a falcon based car I dont need a mod plate.

Also to get the mod plate you will need to prove that suspension, brakes, transmission are all equal to or better then the stock parts from the donor vehicle, well thats what they told me anyways.
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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:08 pm 
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I'm with the structural statement above...

Anything you modify that enhances or hinders the cars structural nature... Well yeah I reckon it'll need a cert...

If you cut the K frame to put the motor in, you'll need one (to prove the replacement bar is thick enough, long enough, as enough overlap, welds penetrated the right amount)... But if you cut the sump and get someone to alloy weld the slope on the front, use the factory mounting holes and don't have to make any custom brackets or drill anything out (every extra hole weakens the material) then I'd reckon you'd near be OK...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:54 pm 
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Thanks fella's well yeah im trying to sell my EB to a fella in VIC and he is unsure if he needs a mod plate and won't buy it if it needs a mod plate.

I'm sure it does not.

 

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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:19 pm 
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He really needs to find out the rules where he is. I found out today that even if you have the car all done and legal in one state, it could be totally useless in another.
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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:17 am 
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it will need an engineers cert in vic - however depending on which engineer it will vary WILDLY as to what needs to be done, some will request a brake upgrade no matter what (these ones are on the hoppers stopper payroll i think) other will see that the mass of the car hasnt changed and will be happy with a brake test,some will suggest you fit the brakes from a V8 falcon even though the 6cyl ones on the car are the same bloody parts already, some will want modifications to the K frame done by a certified welder, others will want finite element analysis and stress testing. its up to the engineer and no amount of logic or scientific proof will change their minds hell when you meet their requirements they will sometimes change them they want a certified welder - you get a trade certified boilermaker to weld it, they decide that isnt qualified enough.

 

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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:31 am 
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SWC wrote:
If you stay NA, Probably not as it is still the basic 4.0l 6 cyl OHC (though double OHC) Engine that the E series as well as the AU's had. You do not need a certificate to install an AU engine, VCT or otherwise in an E series. If you fit a Turbo Barra Engine that will be a different matter as no E series left the Factory with Forced induction.


I need to stand corrected on my original post;

In NSW the Barra Engine would be in excess of the 20% power increase (157kw to 190kw, increase of 33kw) that you are allowed without engineering. So no matter what you do you will require an Engineers Cert. in NSW.
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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:09 am 
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yep in nsw you will need one, due to the increase in base power output, and it must also meet the emisions of the ba engine, which if using the factory ba ecu not to hard to get around an emisions test..
the modification to the the square tube at the front of the k frame in the box cars is not a huge structual mod so not a big problem..
i was going to fit a ba engine in my charged ed, but i just dont want to go get and pay for another engineer certificate.. :roll:


but dont know about the rules in victoria...
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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU NEED ENGINEERS CERT FOR BA/BF MOTOR IN E SERIES?
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:46 pm 
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There are a couple of engineers in Vic that are not so anal about structural testing & so on. They can see if something has been dodgied up or not.... Don't go & see the bloke out in Melton if you are in or around Melbourne, he was a waste of my time.

You shouldn't have to upgrade the brakes UNLESS the car fails the brake force & distance test, measuring vehicle deceleration without wheel lockup. Any engineer that won't do that test & tell's you to just go fit bigger brakes isn't worth paying!

I have been advised after testing, I don't need to upgrade the brakes on my mighty boy, I have fit a 50% larger engine, it's also a bit heavier than the stock small block, not a lot tho & now I'm going to turbocharge it, meaning about 3 times factory power. Stock good working brakes were more than good enough in the mighty boy. Front tiny disc's & rear drums!

In a falcon, with good grippy pads and slotted rotors, I'd be surprised if it failed the brake test with a BA n/a barra engine under the bonnet!

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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