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DOHC into SIX-666 Project 

 

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 Post subject: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:52 pm 
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Ok, been doing some thinking...


A cheap daily has come up and it will allow me to pull the EF off the road and go the full monty on some areas (engine bay, interior).

The original plan when this time came was to rip out the engine, weld and smooth the engine bay and paint, then balance bottom end, new head, oversize valves etc to try and get it up to 200rwkw.

But....

For the price of the valves alone I can pick up a low km DOHC engine.

So I have decided to put the Individual throttle bodies onto a DOHC and put that back in the engine bay.

Just like the ITB project, I am doing as much research as possible, hence this thread, which will also document the process.

So anyone feel free to post any tips or links that may help along the way.

Main thing I need to find out is if the EMS6860 Pulse Width Modulated outputs can drive the DOHC VCT system??

Will be using the T5 for now.
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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:05 pm 
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dsyfer wrote:
Main thing I need to find out is if the EMS6860 Pulse Width Modulated outputs can drive the DOHC VCT system??


There is a Map available for a BA xr6 tune http://www.enginemanagement.com.au/showmap.php?id=42 this is for the a stinger v3. They might of done something to control the Cams there.

If not Atomic make vernier cam gears for the DOHC.
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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:36 pm 
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in some cases the duel vct can be disabled, i know of a ba xr6t thats running a stinger ecu with no vct and is getting a healthy 270 rwkw...

imo the vct is more for drivability and fuel economy..
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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:16 pm 
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Was just reading a Autospeed article, an older Nizpro one and it mentioned:

Quote:
The complete replacement engine management system is the only one on the market that’s up to the task of controlling the Ford’s electronic throttle and variable cam timing: a MoTeC M800.

Mapping of throttle strategies will probably be finalised when the engine hits the road, but – for now – Simon says the ability to alter cam overlap (by altering the relationship between inlet and exhaust cams) makes a huge difference. In the bottom-end, at about 2000 rpm, Simon has picked up around 100ft/lb...


I just checked the MoTec manual, and it has the same outputs as an EMS, four digital On/OFF and four PWM's that can be programmed by (RPM, MAP, TPS).

So it should be doable, now BA and BF have VCT, but only BF have dual VCT, I think. But was it just the programming, meaning is a BA capable of dual VCT? Or was it a physical link with the cams?
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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:59 pm 
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All the DOHCs are dual VCT with a 60degree range

 

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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:13 pm 
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I could be wrong, but i thought BA had duel VCT but was only a fixed change (it was on or off)
BF had a 60degree fully variable duel VCT

 

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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:50 pm 
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Well the BAs are technically not dual VCT, the inlet and exh cams are variable but are locked together.
In the BFs the cams are independent of each other and variable.

 

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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:00 pm 
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krisisdog wrote:
Well the BAs are technically not dual VCT, the inlet and exh cams are variable but are locked together.
In the BFs the cams are independent of each other and variable.

So you could only vary dual timing on a BA setup, but a BF could do timing and overlap.

One output for a BA, and two for a BF.

BF's also had higher compression, wonder what the price difference is between the two donks?
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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:26 pm 
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Just a thought could you use a BA motor in the E series falcon (is the AU bottom end the same as the BA in regards to fitting if i have modded the Au sump to clear the K-Frame?) and could you run the BA motor VCT off a rpm switch? or 2? and use the EL harness and just replace the AU motor with a BA motor? and use the stock BA exhaust manifold? im thinking of doing this mod too but want to know a little more about the conversion but without having to change all the wiring harness? to a BA ecu?

 

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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:15 pm 
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EDXR6-Poly wrote:
Just a thought could you use a BA motor in the E series falcon (is the AU bottom end the same as the BA in regards to fitting if i have modded the Au sump to clear the K-Frame?) and could you run the BA motor VCT off a rpm switch? or 2? and use the EL harness and just replace the AU motor with a BA motor? and use the stock BA exhaust manifold? im thinking of doing this mod too but want to know a little more about the conversion but without having to change all the wiring harness? to a BA ecu?


yes and no..
the ba bottom end is the same in regards to engine mounting and gearbox mounting, but the modded au sump cant be used as the ba oil pump is at the front of the sump so the k frame will need to be modified in this case..
in theory you could run it on an aftermarket ecu or even an ef ecu but you will be limited to using the basic ef batch fire set up and you could use ef throttle body with a custom throttle cable bracket, the other issue is wether or not you can get the vct to operate,.
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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:18 pm 
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So would it mean id have to cut and re weld a new bar in the K-Frame (iv just grinded the AU sump to fit at moment) and maybe with a Aftermarket ECU i could run ful sequencial injection? and control the cam timing? also will the ED engine mounts bolt to the BA block? and what to do about the clearance issues?

 

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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:59 pm 
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Something to think about is getting it registered - when I spoke to my mech about a similar project he said to sign off on it it would require the use of the standard ECU and intake/exhaust manifold/emissions gear for that engine if I wanted to avoid emissions testing.

The downside to this (aside from the muck around of setting up std BA ecu to run only engine/ignition) is an aftermarket ecu would be better depending on what you want to do to the engine (ITB's etc). I think your best bet would be to run standard manifolds and get a super greenie tune done on aftermarket ecu, as this will make it easiest to get the best out of the engine with whatever you intend to do to it later.

Take note though, sort out who you are going to get sign off on it before and get in bed them (not literally). I know that depending on who they are their take on what is required will differ. Some require 100% professional work done on the car, and some require an emissions test regardless of what ecu/standard emissions gear is used. I'm just lucky that my mech is an 'approved person' and very helpful.

 

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Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays?

AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone.

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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:17 pm 
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screw engineering.

get it in, run it on the EMS and go from there.
i'm yet to see anyone running ITB's on a BA motor, the headflow of the DOHC motor coupled with the ITB's should make for some good results.

as nice as the factory ECU is, i don't know how tunable it'd be with the ITB's (i'm assuming you're running a TPS tune?)

lock the cams in position to start with?

 

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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:36 pm 
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thats what i was thinking but (i dont know if BA or BF motors had a aux drive shaft for dizzy or are they just sensor pickup of the crank) so might be a EMS setup and coil pack?

 

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AU2 engine with Hoppers head/cam performance package & spool rods / CP pistons ,Snort 1200 plenum, T56 Manual & Billet short shifter, Front & Rear Slotted rotors, Pedders lowered suspension, LSD and tuned with EMS stinger 4424 347rwkw THE ED XR6 IS BOOSTED

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 Post subject: Re: DOHC into SIX-666 Project
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:42 am 
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EFFalcon wrote:
screw engineering.


If you have the money to play with your car you should have the money to make sure its legal.

 

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EVL098 wrote:
Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays?

AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone.

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