Fordmods Logo

EB XR6 Racecar - circuit 

 

Page 1 of 2 [ 18 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next

 
 Post subject: EB XR6 Racecar - circuit
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:22 pm 
Fordmods Newbie
Offline

Age: 49

Posts: 19

Joined: 25th Aug 2006

Location: Brighton
TAS, Australia

Gday All

1st post here so be polite.
I have come across a neat old manual EB that I am thinking of turning into a club sprint car. I have heaps of questions but the main ones are;
1/Who builds the motors used in the saloon car championship cars and what are they allowed to do. They are fast!
2/ Does the EL inlet manifold retro fit back easy?
3/ How much compression can you have on 98RON in a N/A motor
4/ Can the factory ECU remain for bigger cams etc or do you have to fit aftermarket. Want at least 170RKW (real ones not inflated)

I know turbo etc are great but I like N/A for the circuit. The car will be driven on the street to and from the track and the occasional blast into the hills.

Any help will be appreciated.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:16 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6449

Joined: 11th Nov 2004

if it's going to be a race car, i'd forget trying to use pump feul.
run a 50/50 for 25/75 mix of pump98 and 120 octane race feul.
there is power just in the feul. but coupled with the extra compression you can use it's well worth it for a race car.

again if its going to be a race car, throw the stock rods out and get some good aftermarket ones so you can spin it to 7000rpm, talk to surecam or tighe cams about cam to suit.

 

_________________

PERMANENTLY BANNED

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Rods
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:25 pm 
Fordmods Newbie
Offline

Age: 49

Posts: 19

Joined: 25th Aug 2006

Location: Brighton
TAS, Australia

Wow 7K RPM sounds great.
I know 120RON would be great but the becomes a bit to impractical. I dont mind lumpy idle and stuff but mixing fuel would eb to much. If I had trailer space I would go further.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:44 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 1687

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 5 images

Ride: 1994 ED Ricer

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

mate get ur a*** down to hte local racetrack and ask the guys who race em!
a custom cam, EL manifold (which is easy to swap over)ported shaved head good exhaustsytem and aftermarket ecu will net u 170rwkw. U will have to go aftermarket ecu to run 170rwkw comfortably.. ems stinger is what the saloon cars use i think. You will probably also want 3.9 gears to use on the racetrack aswell.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Track
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:50 pm 
Fordmods Newbie
Offline

Age: 49

Posts: 19

Joined: 25th Aug 2006

Location: Brighton
TAS, Australia

Have been to heaps of club days but E series stuff seems rare. I will do a bit of snooping around the saloon car guys here next time I am at P Island.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:25 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6449

Joined: 11th Nov 2004

i realy dont see the point in the ef and on manifold on race car. the engine shouldn't be dropping that far down for it even switch to long runners

 

_________________

PERMANENTLY BANNED

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:35 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 30

Posts: 3737

Joined: 22nd May 2006

Ride: BF F6 Tornado - #0077

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

fastlenno might be good to talk to, done a lot with race motors (sprint cars) and with the e series.

first thing is to make sure the changes you make are legal, meaning having a long chat to the right people and looking over the rule books. (i used to race karts, rule book an inch thick, no s**t)

the next thing is make sure it handles. there is a lot more Track Performance to be had from handling over horse power. things like entire suspension upgrade, servier weight reduction, etc. i've even heard of people seam welding the chassis to make it stiffer. another good package is a set of WhiteLine sway bars, and chuck in a set of new bushes while your there.

needless to say, LSD (probably not the standard lsd as you'll be putting it under the pump a bit) racing clutch and t5 box (rebuilt would be best), minimum slotted rda or dba rotors with race spec pads. see if you can get some chaser stealies for the rubber. less rotational mass than alloy's

in terms of fuel, are you sure your limited to 98pulp? a lot of australian race classes are. if so, and not to a control or a particular brand, grab ELF 108. its a 98pulp, but its the cleanest fuel avalible in my opinion.

to get the most out of the motor, the EL runners are the best bet with the butterflys that flick over at revs. the cam will requirer a af ecu and a few other componants just to maintain a more efficent run (idles not your concern, outright power is, stock might not cut it) the other thing worth thinking about is the plugs and leads. if its within the rules, go for an af coil on plug setup. that way you can shift the timing to where it suits easy, adjust through the range and such. the other thing about the head is the compression will be adjusted by your builder to suit what he thinks is best. often they might shim it with a thicker gasket to give the requiered cc's

theres always the cms option of their new 4.8 coming out. not a whole lot of info on price and power, but should be a beast and a half. they say it'll run on a stock ecu. with the option of upgradable ecu, fuel, spark and a few other tid bits. but is most certarnly outside of the rules.

hope that helps a bit. give us a progress and pics! and welcome to fordmods

 

_________________

** For Sale ** http://www.fordmods.com/ford-parts-for-sale-f17/assorted-e-series-parts-t124697.html

F6 Tornado 2006 Build

Is it about sex? The engine in my car? Or a cure for cancer?
No?

Then f**k off

Last edited by fiftyone on Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:00 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 30

Posts: 3737

Joined: 22nd May 2006

Ride: BF F6 Tornado - #0077

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

tickford_6 wrote:
i realy dont see the point in the ef and on manifold on race car. the engine shouldn't be dropping that far down for it even switch to long runners


true, but would even out the air distrobution to the cylinders as well as having better holes for the injectors.

 

_________________

** For Sale ** http://www.fordmods.com/ford-parts-for-sale-f17/assorted-e-series-parts-t124697.html

F6 Tornado 2006 Build

Is it about sex? The engine in my car? Or a cure for cancer?
No?

Then f**k off

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:11 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 35

Posts: 1775

Joined: 10th Jul 2007

Gallery: 8 images

Ride: BFII Turbo

Power: 253 rwkw

Location: Waurn Ponds
VIC, Australia

Dont forget to add cooling system upgrades. bigger fans, radiator and pump if you can manage one. A falcon on a hot day can get pretty warm not doing much. its a big weak point in the falcon. The amount of heat involved in racing engines is staggering. You would most likely do a head very quickly without increasing its cooling capacity. Also worry about gearbox temperatures. Dont wanna spit cogs in the middle of the circuit.

Myself I would prioritise in this order:

Cooling
Braking
Suspension
Gearing
Horsepower

and if your are aiming for that sort of power (170rwkw) from the 4ltr, then the brakes would need a size upgrade not just a design. you will be going pretty quick so you will need to stop just as quick. They cost a bit but so does removing half a car from the side of a track.

 

_________________

enough isn't enough

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Track car
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:21 pm 
Fordmods Newbie
Offline

Age: 49

Posts: 19

Joined: 25th Aug 2006

Location: Brighton
TAS, Australia

Thanks for that fellas. Yes that is the order I was thinking of.
1st stop bilsteins, springs, ARBs and a few bushes. I thought of the cebco AP kit for stopping the boat then probably deal with the cooling issues. (I didnt realise that they had any cooling dramas, so that sounds important).
I was thinking 17in alloys as i wanted a 330mm front rotor.
This car will still be street driven, remember its only for sprint days and hill climbs! No trailer park space means drive to the track and back for my speed fix. This means pump 98 with maybe a splash of booster if required, race fuel would be great but I am after smiles not trophies so the effort would get to me. Same as class eligibility, not worried as long as its still allowed out on track days.
Torque is the king so 4.8 sounds good but the thought of a big 6 at 7K RPM makes me smile!!
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:29 pm 
Fordmods Addict
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 7958

Joined: 1st Jun 2005

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Falcon

Power: 237 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

They don't have cooling dramas as such, the cooling system can be a problem if not well looked after.
Good quality thermo fans that are shrouded (factory is best), a V8/Taxi radiator, and a new standard waterpump with fresh coolant would be as far as I'd go.
People that have problems with E-Series overheating generally have a problem somewhere.

 

_________________

ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw
BF MKII F6 Tornado - 237rwkw

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:51 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 35

Posts: 1775

Joined: 10th Jul 2007

Gallery: 8 images

Ride: BFII Turbo

Power: 253 rwkw

Location: Waurn Ponds
VIC, Australia

Drive any e series hard at a track for an hour with factory cooling when the day is warm and you will find out about engine temps even with a well looked after system. they are just not designed for that aplication. You will find the temps at the rear of the engine are too high for the gasket to cope for too long. They are designed to cruise around and maybe pull the odd burst of rpm. It may do it fine for a few weeks but better to think ahead and engineer your car for the task at hand. Ford just never dsigned it with this application in mind.

You wouldnt try to cross the atlantic on a surfboard, you would use a boat because it is what it is designed for. Unless your one of those crazy people who make the news with that sorta thing.

Im sticking with my point that cooling both the engine and trans will be your biggest headache.

Do a flush on the system it will remove any sludge in the motor, then put on any new bits you may choose. No point fouling a new radiator. If its a second hand job, do the flush once its on to ensure best possible flow.

Hope all goes well, nothing beats the rush of track day driving. especially if its a ford.

 

_________________

enough isn't enough

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:15 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 30

Posts: 3737

Joined: 22nd May 2006

Ride: BF F6 Tornado - #0077

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

More Grunt wrote:
Drive any e series hard at a track for an hour with factory cooling when the day is warm and you will find out about engine temps even with a well looked after system. they are just not designed for that aplication. You will find the temps at the rear of the engine are too high for the gasket to cope for too long. They are designed to cruise around and maybe pull the odd burst of rpm. It may do it fine for a few weeks but better to think ahead and engineer your car for the task at hand. Ford just never dsigned it with this application in mind.

You wouldnt try to cross the atlantic on a surfboard, you would use a boat because it is what it is designed for. Unless your one of those crazy people who make the news with that sorta thing.

Im sticking with my point that cooling both the engine and trans will be your biggest headache.

Do a flush on the system it will remove any sludge in the motor, then put on any new bits you may choose. No point fouling a new radiator. If its a second hand job, do the flush once its on to ensure best possible flow.

Hope all goes well, nothing beats the rush of track day driving. especially if its a ford.


they do make a good point about the rear of engine cooling. maybe some sort of 'speed holes' solution that could be filled for road use to make it roadworthy. just to get some more turbulance in the bay?

 

_________________

** For Sale ** http://www.fordmods.com/ford-parts-for-sale-f17/assorted-e-series-parts-t124697.html

F6 Tornado 2006 Build

Is it about sex? The engine in my car? Or a cure for cancer?
No?

Then f**k off

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:17 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 33

Posts: 862

Joined: 8th May 2005

Ride: BA Wagon Turbo, Ba Fairlane G220

Location: Colac
VIC, Australia

HI guys good posts i have a EA turbo ex race car shell i am looking at selling is still in good condition i just brought it for the drive line so everything else is there suspension aliuminium roll cage racing seat racing harness. if anybody is interested :)

 

_________________

Congo Green Ba Wagon With F6 6 Speed Manual Driveline.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:16 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Posts: 25

Joined: 3rd Jul 2005

Ride: Saloon Car EB

Location: St Andrews
NSW, Australia

I race my ea in hour races at full tilt alot and the temp is not a prob now but b4 ... hell yes .. run a ef twin fan setup . also you can run a std rad but lose the thermostat guts just run the hat complete the flow rate is so important at the 4/5000 rpm rate .

Fuel will do jack except the high the ron the low the com temp .

I was running 98 for two seasons and have just upgraded to 102 but unless you are tunned to the fuel it will be nothing but cost more . be care full run any thing lower that 1/4 tank and welcome to fuel surge BADLY

our class can help you with mini spooks and so on

 

_________________

Check my car in the NSW Saloon Car State Series number #220 ...
runner up 2007 tascco challenge NSW

http://www.freewebs.com/hughesracingenterprises/

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:31 pm All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names