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Eb2-Ed I6 Alternator Upgrade? 

 

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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:00 am 
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The EB swaybar brackets use a bolt and a lever, where the EF uses two bolts.

Just make sure you have the correct ones.

BenJ

 

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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:46 pm 
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I bought an EF alternator and EL fans today. At first look the alternators are very similar and I can see why one would think they'd interchange. I fitted it up to the old block with only minor easement of the lower engine bracket required. The offset from 12:00 oclock clockwise of the top bolt hole is a problem in that the adjustment bracket does not line up. Either a custom bracket needs to made or a bit of grinder surgery performed on my spare bracket to enable adjustment, I never use the toothed adjuster anyhow so they [the teeth] won't be missed if they have to go.
Also the top hole on the EF is not threaded but that's no big problem.
I have my doubts about interchanging parts as the EF alt seems much thicker in girth and until I can sneak my wife's dressmakers tape I can't confirm this. Also the bottom bracket arms seem of different length, so the front of one may not sit even with the rear of the other.
Also the procedures for breaking apart the Mitsi's requires heating the rear end I'm not sure I want to do this, so it's of to the autolec tomorrow for advice in the absence of any suggestions .
If the front can be changed I'll get a price etc., then try it myself, but at the moment I favor utilizing the complete unit, by easing the engine bracket 1mm and modding the adjustment arm, or fabricating a section.
Ben, I'll look under the car now and compare it to the EL diff housing.
I'm very pleased with the huge amount of air the EL fans move, I'll use Bunter's setup info. as it looks really tidy in his car and I like the idea of "infinitely adjustable" to conditions.
Well, back to work.
Paul

 

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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:52 pm 
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Well the EF alternator is fitted to my old engine, Grinder surgery to the bottom and end of the adjuster bracket, a tap or two with a variably adjustable knockometer and it's done. Rough but in, if you knew what you wanted to do up front, the whole deal would take 10 minutes or so, depending largely on if the "new" alternator comes with a lug boss that requires easing of the rear part of the block bracket. Tomorrow, when I do this for real, I will remove the block bracket completely and ease it the 1mm on a bench grinder for accuracy. I kinda cut at a slant with the angle grinder and am not happy with that, if one took a little more care and not big gouges the angle grinder could still be used. Same for the upper bracket. Where the rear arm of the upper bracket joins the front [toothed] part it interferes with the tensioning bolt's nut, but a little more grinding should clear this and still leave a strong support.
I haven't fitted a proper ribbed belt yet, got too dark to find it, but a mock up with another belt [with P/s belt fitted} looked good and the pulley alignment can be spaced outwards if need be.
I don't think parts will interchange as the 4 screws on the 70amp have 95mm approx. centre to centre and the 110amp screws have 100mm. [These figures are approximate because I used a straight rule and was completely sober at the time]
Time for a beer or three,
Cheers
Paul

 

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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:21 pm 
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Some good info there Paul.
So the EF/EL alt pulley suits the EB/ED belt, there's no need to swap pulleys ??
Yeah, sounds logical if there's more stator windings, the case may need to be bigger to accomodate.

 

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97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:49 pm 
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Snap,
I mocked it up on my old block with the serp. pulley still on. I couldn't find my ribbed belt in the gloom so I used a v-belt. I would have a small punt that, in a pinch, the narrow early ribbed belt will run in the back grooves of the wider serp. pulley. I will know for sure tomorrow, but will be fitting the narrower pulley to the car for normal use. My mate at the wreckers [small town] said I could keep my warranty if I changed the pulley but not if I opened the case. $100 for the alt., some warranty counts.
I will still check what can be done in this area if poss.
As a precaution [plan B] I checked out the serp. setup and BBM on an EL at the wreckers today in excellent condition, I'm tempted. I forgot to check for an XH tensioner, as I don't want to discard my present, excellent, aircon. Old dogs can be flexible .....sometimes.
I can get 6 EF/EL thermos in top nick for $75 per set, do you think any of the members would be interested at that price?
Cheers,
Paul

 

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Last edited by Paulmac on Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:28 am 
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Paulmac wrote:
As a precaution [plan B] I checked out the serp. setup and BBM on an EL at the wreckers today in excellent condition, I'm tempted. I forgot to check for an XH tensioner, as I don't want to discard my present, excellent, aircon. Old dogs can be flexible .....sometimes.
From memory - If you do fit the BBM, you should be able to remove the A/C bracket, and mount the compressor to the block - which lifts it higher, enabling an EF/EL tensioner - you may find getting hold of an XH tensioner not that easy. Does the EB/ED compressor pulley suit the serp belt ??
Paulmac wrote:
I can get 6 EF/EL thermos in top nick for $75 per set, do you think any of the members would be interested at that price?
I think you might be undercut before you even start . . . http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57936

 

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97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:20 am 
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Hi mate,
As I have a spare compressor now I may be able to check that at the wreckers. Where exactly on the car is this vacuum actuator located? Either they've been removed from the all vehicles I've looked at, highly unlikely, or dumbass me me is looking in all the wrong places, more likely.
As I'm experimenting on the old block and have removed the aircon bracket, I'll see if it fits to the block later today.
I spoke to Bill about those fans when I was at his place last week and the supply is limited and occasional. It's a great offer and Bill has no middleman [wrecker] to take his whack. As I understand it, Bill will take names and supply them as the fans come in. As he has to sling $50 to get them, I know he's presenting them at cost.
He made me the same offer, but I couldn't wait and these fans are like brand new.
I was basing my thoughts on the more usual $100 or so I see in our "for sales". I'll ring Bill, if he's getting a few coming through I won't bother pursuing it, obviously it's a better deal.
Cheers
Paul

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:42 am 
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Hey Paul

There is another guy here on the AFF forums that used an EF tensioner.

Here is the link to the thread. JokersEA

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=105536

Hopefully you might find it useful.

BenJ

 

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My respect and thanks go to - snap0964, Paulmac, SWC and MRE-50L

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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:33 am 
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BBM VSV:
http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21796

BBM Bits:
http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23503

Vaccy Lines (Troyman's 2nd diagram is the correct one):
http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=47736

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:24 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Hi Ben,
Hope the holiday is going well. Thanks for the link, I've got to love what Simon did, his colour scheme is almost the same as mine. The serp setup pics are worth a thousand words, later I'll PM him re spacer lengths etc.
Thanks again Snap, those links are great, I must have a muddled memory on this matter as I was looking behind the coolant bottle, duh. I'll bookmark this thread so I don't lose all these tips.
Got a Davies-Craig switch kit to-day and a V8 trans oil cooler to replace my fractured one. When it gets cooler, I'll finish off the alternator mounting on the good motor so I can fit it to the car this weekend. I'll also upgrade the main lead to an EF wire, the plug is the same.
Take care,
Paul

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:22 am 
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To summarize,
FYI, I settled on an EF 110amp alternator. It's larger than the 70amp so no swapping parts.
Here's how...
Ground 1mm off the rear of the lower mounting bracket, as the lug boss on this unit projects just a little too much: ground the bottom of the adjustment arm to clear the alternator body: used a 50mm x 15mm bolt and nylock nut through the top mounting hole still using toothed adjuster: Added a longer belt [min 940-950mm max, 3PK profile].
[I have a min 30mm future adjustment, plenty with these no stretch belts]: Added the larger EF mainwire, left the plug as it's the same.
The serp hub will hold the belt straight in the grooves but I will fit the smaller hub to-morrow when I find my rattle-gun sockets.
All up about 15 minutes work for a 110 amp conversion, just right for my car fridge, thermos and d/lights.
Hope this helps end some of the confusion and unnecessary costs surrounding what turned out to be a very simple conversion. The same procedure applies to the EL Mitsubishi alternator.
I will post a couple of pics to-morrow of the grinder surgery and it fitted to the engine, as it is easier to see now than when it's back in the car.
Cheers
Paulmac

 

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Last edited by Paulmac on Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:45 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EB1 Fairmont Ghia T5 Wagon

Location: Seven Hills, Sydney
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Hey Paul

Sweet as mate.

Looking forward to the photos.

BenJ

 

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BenJ's EB T5 DOHC Ghia Wagon - Current Ride
BenJ's EB GL Sedan - Previous Ride
My respect and thanks go to - snap0964, Paulmac, SWC and MRE-50L

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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:24 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Ben,
Get to bed you dirty stop out,
Mac

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:01 pm 
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Here are two quick pix I took when mocking up, my wife has the camera ATM so I can't post any fitted to the "real" engine with the longer belt until later. There is actually more room between the adjustment bar and the alternator than appears, also it is really a proof of concept, the finished bracket is much neater.
Paul

 

 

Attachments:
Alt2.jpg
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Alt1.jpg
Alt1.jpg [ 164.21 KiB | Viewed 126 times ]

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:25 am 
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Update,
The standard pulley had a tiny clearance issue at its base. A suitable size thin washer sitting on the bearing fixed that. The belt used now and fits perfectly, is a 3PK940 from Bursons, not dear either. The serp pulley worked just fine, but I'm not sure I'd trust it on a long trip at highway speeds.
I just added the EF power cable to the terminal on top of the EB cable and attached the other end to the positive bat post as this is where the EB2 cable seems to end up. The control plug is the same, just in a different position. After the Koala Park day I'll get to the autolec to make sure nothing else needs urgent upgrading. If it does, I'll post it here.
Paul

 

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