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EF 4L into EL Falcon wagon, updated pg3, power issues :-| 

 

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 Post subject: EF 4L into EL Falcon wagon, updated pg3, power issues :-|
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:35 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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hey everyone hows it going

just got myself a EL falcon wagon to fix up. the owner has had it since new, has 302,000k's on the dial and told me that it has a broken timing chain. i just got it home thisavo and started taking things apart and found this

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i guess id really like advice on where to go from here. the chain is intact so im considering leaving the chain and just getting someone to drill out the cam gear bolt, replace the rocker and it should be running again or could the pistons have smashed the valves?

also just wondering what sort of timing chain setup these have, is it a spring loaded tensioner? iv only worked in great depth with nissan L6 engines which have a similar setup

any direction or advice on where to go from here and what damage there could be would be great

thanks guys

Last edited by brycey on Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:33 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:47 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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you broke a rocker arm which means the valve got a hit from the pistons. You will probably find that most of the valves are bent.

There is a lot of work to get that engine running again - id be looking for a 2nd hand engine to replace it.

Assuming that you want to fix that at a minimum you will need replacement rocker gear and cam, a timing chain kit and a recon of the head with new valves. There is also a good chance that the timing cover will have cracked from the stress of the chain break. Lots of labor in it as well.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:50 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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yep spring loaded tentioner.

obviously a rocker arm is broken not the most uncommon thing never seen one that bad though.

for how much a cam is i wouldnt bother drilling out the cam bolt, i have and xr6 cam laying around here i cant get rid of.

id be more looking into why they motor got that kind of damage, has it seized up, oviously the its out of time anyway, i would try and turn it over to see if the bearings have gone.

the best thing to do is maybe just get a whole new engine they gof airly cheap these days prob get something good for 300 bucks.
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:59 pm 
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what is that yellow thing in the first pic? looks like a dip stick.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:02 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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i havnt turned the engine over, i havnt really wanted to because i didnt want to take the risk of hitting the valves as stockstandard pointed out..

the old owner says that the engine does turn over, he was going to turn it over for me when i went to pick it up today but i quickly said "NO no, its ok" so id say the bottom end is alright. at first when i saw the metal shavings around the head in the last picture i thought they were bearing shavings but now i just think they are from the cam getting beaten up.

ill start looking into a new engine if thats the case..

shnoza wrote:
what is that yellow thing in the first pic? looks like a dip stick.


sure is
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:05 pm 
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If the engine has done that many kms.. the quickest fix would be to get a 2nd hand motor.. and do a straight swap
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:06 pm 
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shnoza wrote:
what is that yellow thing in the first pic? looks like a dip stick.

Sup n00b :)

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:09 pm 
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haha you can tell how long it has been since i check the oil.. doesnt matter cause im going to change the oil today anyway. (thought it might of been the dip stick for the auto but i thought the auto was a closed unit with no dip stick).
back on topic. wouldnt a second hand head work?

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:14 pm 
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brycey wrote:
ill start looking into a new engine if thats the case..


Good move. I see more $ in broken parts in that pic than the cost of a 2nd hand engine. Problem with a 2nd hand engine you dont know what your getting, but even if you fix that engine up it is a big unknown.

When you go shopping get as many quotes as you can as some people really overvalue these engines. Also keep you eye on the for sale section in the forums (or post in the wanted) and see what comes up.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:16 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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shnoza wrote:
haha you can tell how long it has been since i check the oil.. doesnt matter cause im going to change the oil today anyway. (thought it might of been the dip stick for the auto but i thought the auto was a closed unit with no dip stick).
back on topic. wouldnt a second hand head work?


2nd hand top end would work, but then you need machining, head gasket, new head bolts and timing kit to get it on and working so its going to work out more $ and effort than just dropping another engine in.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:17 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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thanks guys.. ill start calling around and if i can find a good price then ill start taking the engine out. ill have more progress up later.. thanks again
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:20 pm 
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yeah but it won't cost much more to get a lower km complete 2nd hand engine.. hell it doesn't look like you need the car running.. you might as well recondition one yourself while you're at it.. get yourself a car that'll be running great for another 5yrs or so
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:39 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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holy cow, just called my local ford wrecker and they want $770 with exchange! still a few more people i want to talk to but that price seems very very rich
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:46 pm 
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Rip off merchants.. any wrecker here will give you an EL engine for $400 or $700 fitted.
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:01 am 
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Hi guys, new to this forum stuff, but I thought I'd put my 2 bobs worth in. If you remove all the spark plugs and the rocker gear, take one of the spark plugs, knock out the ceramic, and weld on an air line fitting. You now have a cylinder leak tester! Screw this into the each plug hole, connect air line, and slowly add compressed air. I say slowly, because the air will try and push the piston down, & 90psi will push the piston down pretty fast! Try to support timing gear/chain, so aas no more damage occurs during this process. If any valve damage has occured, air will bypass the valves, and you will know that he head will have to come off.
If valves appear to be seating, as well as a 300,000km engine valve will seat, you only need source a 2nd hand cam & rocker, which your local machine shop will probably have an abundance of.
Your next question reguarding tensioner, if you remove the power steering pump, the tensioner screws into the side of the timing cover. By remove the tensioner, you will be able to easily refit the gear to the camshaft, reset the tensioner, and then refit. (Make sure chain has not jumped any teeth on the gear.)
The engine looks extemely clean for a 300,000km motor, so I must question as to whether the damage was a DIY job gone wrong, the head has obviously had work done. If so, it may not be as bad as it looks.
I'm hoping the part in the picture, with the broken rocker, is the cam bolt, as you don't want that floating around behind the timing cover. Also once you have the cam out, you might find the remaining section of bolt may not be in there that tight, and if the cam is not damaged, may be re-useable!!
If everthing checks out OK, another good tip is, your local ford dealer should sell a lifter rebuild kit. Remove lifters from rockers, dismantle, clean & refit using seals supplied in kit. It's a simple job that can render great results.
Hope all goes well and GOOD LUCK!
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