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ef down on power 

 

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 Post subject: ef down on power
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Age: 23

Posts: 201

Joined: 24th Aug 2012

Ride: 1987 telstar/2004 BA XR6 5spd

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

hey guys, i have done a bit of work to my ef futura and i dont think it is as powerfull as it should be...it has pacemaker 4499 extractors, gutted hi flow cat ( came with extractors ) lukey single muffler 2.5" cat back zorst, manual conversion out of a 96 ef futura, i am also using the manual ecu...
it has ( from what iv been told ) a rebuilt el motor with ef running gear..i was told the head has had some light work done to it and the zorst note sounds like it might have a cam in it...
i raced my mates 97 EL GLI from 70kmph to what ever speed we got to and we were dead even..his car is fully stock auto...to me that dosnt sound right...and we both have 3:08 ratio diffs...
any ideas?
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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:29 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: 1997 EL XR6

Power: 180 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

I would open the head to see if it does have a cam, with all those mods it wouldn't be overly powerful 140rwkw id say?? Then maybe a tune would be an idea

 

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MGW Short Throw Shifter, CVE Cam, CVE Head, SS Big Mouth Air Intake, Pacemaker Headers, 3" Exhaust, 3" Varex, 3" Cat, 19" Silver Agents, EMS Stinger 4424, 42lb Injectors and Walbro 255lb Fuel Pump

Next: Pacemaker Comps, 6 Individual Throttle Bodies, ICE Coil and ignition

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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:37 pm 
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Age: 23

Posts: 201

Joined: 24th Aug 2012

Ride: 1987 telstar/2004 BA XR6 5spd

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

is there any easy way to tell the std cam from an aftermarket one with out removing the rocker gear?

im taking the valve cover off in the next few days to replace it with a ticky one i have laying around so ill take a gander at it then
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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:36 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 901

Joined: 28th Apr 2011

Gallery: 18 images

Ride: 1997 EL XR6

Power: 180 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

You can try and peek at the numbers inscribed on the end but I'm pretty sure it will need to come out.

 

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MGW Short Throw Shifter, CVE Cam, CVE Head, SS Big Mouth Air Intake, Pacemaker Headers, 3" Exhaust, 3" Varex, 3" Cat, 19" Silver Agents, EMS Stinger 4424, 42lb Injectors and Walbro 255lb Fuel Pump

Next: Pacemaker Comps, 6 Individual Throttle Bodies, ICE Coil and ignition

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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:50 pm 
Smokin em up
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Age: 23

Posts: 201

Joined: 24th Aug 2012

Ride: 1987 telstar/2004 BA XR6 5spd

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

any ideas what would be causing lack in power? it can even do a normal stand still burnout anymore...the fuel filter is pretty new, has new blue 8.0mm topgun spark leads, has a new coil pack, have cleaned out throttle body and intake manifold with nulon foaming intake cleaner ( helped with poor idle )
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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:02 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 41

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Ride: 5.0 AU's and 5.0 Maverick

Power: 139 rwkw

Location: Sydney West
NSW, Australia

Could be stacks of things.
Low Comp
Headgasket leaking
Cam timing has skipped a tooth
Vacuum leak
The list goes on.

 

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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:17 pm 
Smokin em up
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Age: 23

Posts: 201

Joined: 24th Aug 2012

Ride: 1987 telstar/2004 BA XR6 5spd

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

head gasket seems fine, dosnt blow smoke, dosnt use oil or coolant...
before i put the motor in i pulled the sensor out ( the one where the dizzy would be on an EL ) to get to the welch plug behind it...if i didnt put that back right could that be causing the issue?

there are no vacume leaks, i have sprayed carb cleaner on every vacume hose connection i could find and around the intake listening for any change in rpm and it was fine.

i dont have the equipment to check the compression so that will remain on the table.

i changed the oil in it 2 days ago and it was very black...it was only 4 months old and havnt done that much driving with it...

ill check my spark plugs tomorrow and make sure there gaped right...is there anything els i should look for on the plugs?

just a little more info...it used to hit redline with ease..it loved revving...now it seems to struggle a bit to get there ( i havnt done this much, every now and then i give it a boot in the a** )...at first i was thinking maybe injectors were dirty as they had been sitting in my tool box for around 2 months, so i ran a few bottles of injector cleaner and a full tank of 98 premium fuel thew the system and it didnt help at all so maybe no injectors
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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Location: ɹǝpun uʍop
NSW, Australia

Harmonic balancer?

 

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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:49 pm 
Smokin em up
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Age: 23

Posts: 201

Joined: 24th Aug 2012

Ride: 1987 telstar/2004 BA XR6 5spd

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

wouldnt have the faintest idea how to check that lol
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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:56 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 41

Posts: 4629

Joined: 23rd Nov 2006

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: 5.0 AU's and 5.0 Maverick

Power: 139 rwkw

Location: Sydney West
NSW, Australia

If you didnt put the cam sensor back in properly it would put the ignition timing out.

 

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xr6turnip wrote:
More people paid for a ride in a VT commodore then an AU Falcon so the VT is superior.
Based on that fact my Mum is the best around!

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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Age: 23

Posts: 201

Joined: 24th Aug 2012

Ride: 1987 telstar/2004 BA XR6 5spd

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

sounds like the next think to check, ill need a timing light to test that wouldnt i?
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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:32 am 
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You say it used to rev happily - I take it you mean the original engine used to? - if so then I'd be picking an issue with the cam - either just a crap cam or not timed properly - or maybe too big for the rest of the engine/exhaust and std ecu tune.

Did you have the gutted cat before? - running a pipe thru the body of the gutted cat - or only punching out a passage thru the core rather than gutting completely - is the way to go - simply having a gutted cat casing there (ie. a chamber) is a bad idea as it basically causes a restriction - ie. high velocity gas enters that chamber and slows down causing instant pressure increase and stuffing any column flow characteristics there might otherwise be.

I'm not so sure the cam phase sensor would play a role in the issue - it doesn't directly affect the timing on an ongoing basis - just gives the ecu a broad signal to tell it whether it's coming to TDC on Intake or Exhaust stroke - which in theory should only be critical for starting - but in fact the EF will start and run fine with that sensor unplugged...

If you have access to ur old engine I'd put the cam from that back in this engine (even if it's just std cam) to eliminate that as an issue - in the scheme of things that's not a big job for a lot of peace of mind. Another option is just bite the bullet and have it put on a dyno and see if they can identify the issue.

 

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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:38 am 
Smokin em up
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Age: 23

Posts: 201

Joined: 24th Aug 2012

Ride: 1987 telstar/2004 BA XR6 5spd

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

i mean the new one used to...i had the intake snorkel off for a while and put it back on a few days ago and that has seemed to have fixed the reving issue (maybe sucking in to much hot air with out the snorkal? ) and as for the cat it has been compleatly gutted..nothing inside it at all...it's a 2.5" flange into a 3" center and out a 2.5" flange..i will look into getting my spair std cat modded to replace the gutted one...the old motor is long gone but i can get my hands on a std xr6 cam to try..i will also give that ago..and im going to do the cam sensor right too...bring motor to TDC and use a 3mm allen key in the sensor to turn it till it locks and drop it in...

one thing i found very strange too is when i first did the manual conversion i forgot to swap the auto ecu out for the manual one...it started and reved fine on the very first start with the auto ecu...i was under the impression that the motor would not even crank with the auto ecu in it with out doing the " resister trick " is there any chance that could be related?
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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:11 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Location: FNQ
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Auto ECU will run and do everything fine except maybe idle might be a bit squirrely - altho I never had any dramas with mine - ie. when I did the manual conversion on my ED many years ago I didn't get round to actually doing the resistor trick for over a year - and thinking back on it I don't recall having any significant drivability issues. So you could try chucking the auto ecu in to see what if any difference that makes.

EDIT: - just realised that EF / EL may have issues with thermo fans running all the time etc. without the resistor mod...

You can safely discount the cat as being an issue directly to this business I think - for a start I missed that you did say it was gutted hi flow (sorry :oops: ) - so yeah yours is a section of slightly larger area but nowhere near the huge cavity that results when a std cat is gutted - just looking at the two I'm sure you'll see what I'm talking about. It'll still be something of an interruption to IDEAL flow but prolly not disasterous.

And coming back to the original issue - you're saying THIS engine used to have good balls but suddenly went soggy (was it THIS engine that used to be able to do burnouts but can't anymore), or that it never has had the performance you expected?

 

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96 EF Auto GLi - Bilstein Shocks - Adjustable Front sway bar - JMM Cam - TI Perf J3 - TCI 2500/3000 stall converter. 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk.

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 Post subject: Re: ef down on power
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 5:04 pm 
Smokin em up
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Age: 23

Posts: 201

Joined: 24th Aug 2012

Ride: 1987 telstar/2004 BA XR6 5spd

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

i dont think it's lost any power as such but it's never had the amount of power i would expect from the exhaust mods alone...it cant do burn outs any more but thats most likely down to a worn clutch and a dodgy diff..my mate who gave me the motor said it feels more slugish then when it was in his car ( exact same set up ) in a race 70km/h rolling start i was dead even with my mates dead stock el auto...id expect my car to atleast have some lead over his el considering it's manual and has extractors and a 2.5" zorst :/
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