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EF Engine Running REAL RICH and hunting idle badly. 

 

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 Post subject: EF Engine Running REAL RICH and hunting idle badly.
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:52 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Yeah yeah - ANOTHER EF problem posting. I've been here before too... Sorry - tried searching, tried this, tried that... Here goes...

Engine has been running a bit rich for a while - put in different MAP's and O2 sensors. Made little (or no) difference after initial excitment had worn off.

FUEL PUMP died today. Knew it was going to. The fact it died isn't really a problem. It died. SImple.

The replacement I had from a Supra Turbo looks about the same, but is a little different making it a bit complicated for a direct fit into the stationwagon tank. I went to REPCO and spent $200 on a brand new one. Got it to fit in straight away, fired up car, let it run for a minute or two during which time I asked a few people "why is it smoking like that?"

Anyway, dropped it back onto all four wheels and started driving to pick up kid from the ferry back from school camp.

Half way there and the car stalled when throttle was open about 5% and started first time when put in neutral and restarted. Odd. Then it did it again. And one more time to make sure.

By this time I figured the new pick up was slightly higher so figured more petrol was the answer. Put another five or six litres in and it doesn't stall any more.

BUT....

It doesn't idle and happens to be very black smokey.

When trying to idle it almost stalls, then rev's to about 900 then almost stalls, then goes to 900, then almost stalls.... It kind of bounces a bit less than 900, then 890, then 870, Etc etc. Does that for about a minute and then spends 20 seconds idling on 700 or so (although quite lumpy) before almost stalling and hitting 900 all over again.

The crap coming out the exhuast is more like soot than smoke.


Before doing the fuel pump swap I had been noticing a fuel smell in cabin after loading motor... It has been running a little rich for a while, but is now very rich with the new pump....


ANY IDEAS WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED. No matter how silly they sound to you, I'm all ears.
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:08 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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I should at that when taking off real quick the car still has heaps of power... And when smoothly accelerating it seems pretty much normal (although slightly more smokey).

Had the battery unplugged for a few hours when replacing the pump and have now unplugged battery and am leaving it for the night like that... Not too hopeful that reseting the ECU will do much, but you never know.

What was the trick to "re-tune" the car? Turn it off, turn it on and keep accelerator floored for five seconds or something??....
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:20 pm 
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check fuel pressure regulator...

air temp and coolant sensors...

maybe knock sensor

run codes and see what comes up

obviously in could also be O2

 

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 Post subject: Mine has done the same
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:49 pm 
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I have had the same problem, after disconnecting the battery for a while. The problem is that my car is not standard, as it runs a 'mild performance' Crow camshaft and a few other mods. The factory setting with the computer is different than what the cam likes, and therefore the computer needs about 400km to re-learn settings to suit the cam.

Try and run it for 400km and it should have completely sorted itself out by then. Improvements should occur well before 400km though...
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:24 pm 
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I broke my coolent sensor beside the thermostat housing at power cruise and my car did the same thing. Replaced the sensor and drove all the excess fuel out of the motor and it is fine now. It took a good15 min to burn all the fuel out of the motor and exhaust

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:06 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Thanks for the ideas....

GO-GET-EM -- How do you actually check if a fuel regulator is working? I tried pulling the vacuum hose off it and that made no difference at all to the way it ran - does that mean it's buggered?


Like I said - The fuel pump (original) was whining and moaning about life in general and was not operating 100%. I put a new fuel pump in and now it is rich as charcoal in a Scottish winter.

Reasons (by my uneducated reasoning) could be the fuel reg was stuffed somehow by the dying fuel pump.

When running the car you can actually smell petrol out the exhuast strongly - so yes - SUPER RICH.

Have tried swapping the O2 sensor back and it is actually worse than the newer o2 sensor.

Tried taking the vacuum hose off the MAP and it ran way way worse (as to be expected)....

Okay - have daughter here and gotta go make pancakes or something.

Keep the ideas coming.!
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:56 am 
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really the only way to test fuel pressure reg is to test with a guage (which u prob dont have) or replace the fuel reg...

could also be a restricted return line...so try removing that

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:20 pm 
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Okay GO GET EM BROTHER. You could be onto something there, for sure. The mechanic guy who owned the workshop where I was (thankfully) using his jacks and a couple of tools actually pulled the pump out and not knowing any better he tried to remove the hose where it goes from rubber to metal in the left wheel arch above axle (wagon remember...)

In so doing he bent one of the fuel pipes, return or feed I'm not sure... It doesn't look kinked, and I did straighten it after putting the new pump in...

If I remove the return line, won't I get petrol spraying everywhere at 50psi or thereabouts?


:idea: Also had a quick look at all the other sensors and what have you that can be seen directly in engine bay and they seem normal - at least, nothing appears to have changed from when the car was running sweet.

The coolant temperature setup seems fine....


I am totally guessing, and am by no means a mechanic of note, but does sound like GOGETTEMLAD is barking up the right tree. The engine was running fine (albiet a little rich). Now, all I have done is change fuel pump to one that actually works 100% and it is now SUPER RICH. Obviously this would suggest something else in the fuel supply equation was faulty. Maybe the old pump put out so little pressure that the fuel regulator never needed to work, and it's now 100% stuck open?


As far as checking the return line - Could I chop the rubber hose near where it returns to the tank and then splice it together using a short length of metal pipe and a couple of hose clamps?!


Bugger... It's embarrassing as hell driving the poor old thing around now.

AND - There goes my plans of $1000 paint job. This has cost me $200 already....
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:30 pm 
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I would get a length of hose and run it from the fuel reg (return line) to a container....if things improve then youve got the job of fixing that kink

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:48 pm 
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Sweet as bro...

Good thinking... Now - Guess I have to go and find which is which... Hehehehe, you are dealing with a novice here Mr Go Get Em...


Okay - I was going to go and pick up the new clutch plate, pressure plate, spigot, fork cover, cable, pedal and clutch pivot pins, but reckon it may be more worthwhile to save the car (and the planet) more pain......
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:25 am 
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I would be taking a good look at your temp sensors too, if you have not already done that . The reason being the ecu will flood the engine with fuel to cool it down if it thinks it is hot. Good Luck

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:05 pm 
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Removed the fuel return hose at join between rubber and metal piping at firewall. Ran hose into a fuel container and turned the old car on. Heaps of smoke. Thought that it may be different rev'd a few times - sure enough, every time I rev'd it the smoke got a bit thinner. Left it running for a little while (until container was half full) and turned it off. Fired it up again and brilliant - best it's ran in a while actually!

The problem was eventually traced to the rear left wheel arch by attempting to blow compressed air through the hose....

The "mechanic" had gripped the hose with a pair of vice grips and tried to pull it off. All he did was crush the plastic lining of the pipe and thus prevented petrol returning to the tank. Pulled the hose completely off and made a new one.

Believe it or not --- The fuel gauge was reading about a quarter full and the trip computer was saying I had 80 km's left... I knew this was crap - I had about 10 litres in there at the most. AFTER fixing this fuel return pipe the petrol gauge is showing just about E and the trip computer is beeping merrily away that she'll do 35km's before carking it.

Odd - anyone care to explain that one?


xr6eat 50 wrote:
I would be taking a good look at your temp sensors too, if you have not already done that . The reason being the ecu will flood the engine with fuel to cool it down if it thinks it is hot. Good Luck


Well now, that's one clever bloody computer... Not as clever as the what the BA's do when they're getting hot - but pretty clever nonetheless. I wonder if they'll ever put water injection into these at factory?


All good. Pity about the wasted day - I could have been pulling the bumper off and sanding it back to be painted or something....
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:39 am 
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:45 am 
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id try replacing the MAP sensor too, just to make sure. bout $5 from a wreckers.

and thats an awesome cake!!

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:56 am 
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Car is running good now Alfy -- I did replace the MAP about 500k ago, along with o2 about the same time. I now know the regulator (fuel pressure) is working fine and everything appears to be going good.... Cheers!
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