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 Post subject: EF Synchroniser
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:10 pm 
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is the synchroniser 100% required on the EF?
what would happen if it wasnt used?
i realise its ignition related, and tells the ecu what stroke its on, but would it matter if the ecu wasnt told that?

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF Synchroniser
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:16 pm 
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EFFalcon wrote:
is the synchroniser 100% required on the EF?
what would happen if it wasnt used?
i realise its ignition related, and tells the ecu what stroke its on, but would it matter if the ecu wasnt told that?


If you are talking about either the crank angle sensor or the cam angle sensor - then yes, both are required for the DIS system.

Crank tells about stroke, cam angle identifies which cylinder is where...

Without it, it will probably fall back on 10 degrees BTDC timing and lock it. Either that - or it wont run at all.

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:20 pm 
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so the only issues would be fail safe ECU measures?

i'm talking about the cam angle sensor.
its simply to tell the ECU what stroke its on right?

in theory, what would happen if the car was to run without it.

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:35 pm 
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EFFalcon wrote:
so the only issues would be fail safe ECU measures?

i'm talking about the cam angle sensor.
its simply to tell the ECU what stroke its on right?

in theory, what would happen if the car was to run without it.


The cam sensor is used by EEC to determine the phase of the engine.... essentially tells it where cylinder # 1 is within it's cycle. If it doesnt know, it will probably revert to safe mode which is 10* locked...

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:39 pm 
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yeah, but if i was planning on running an external EDIS setup, that has no input for the synch, would it matter?
why exactly is it required if other EDIS setups can do without it.

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:44 pm 
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EFFalcon wrote:
yeah, but if i was planning on running an external EDIS setup, that has no input for the synch, would it matter?
why exactly is it required if other EDIS setups can do without it.


Ahh, now we're getting somewhere ;)

My understanding of it... if you are running an aftermarket ECU which supports distributorless, you wont need the cam position sensor. Im not sure why the falcon system used it in the first place - perhaps they considered implementing sequential fuel injection? (which requires CMP). Someone like XR9ute probably able to enlighten us.

So long as the crank angle sensor on the EF is a 36-1 tooth wheel, that's all you need AFAIK.

You'll need the coil packs, an external EDIS module and a couple of other things - have a look at the megasquirt thread(s) for more on this, i never looked beyond the V8 ignition system.

More here:
http://www.megasquirt.info/ms2/EDIS.htm

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:50 pm 
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Yeah i have read through the megasquirt stuff and have sourced an EDIS6 module.
the current EF coil pack looks like it should be fine, EF has a 36-1 tooth wheel and i imagine i'd simply have to relocate the VR sensor to 60 degrees BTDC (if i've read right)

just wanted to know if there was a reason specifically on the 4.0 for why it needed the synch.

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:11 pm 
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EFFalcon wrote:
Yeah i have read through the megasquirt stuff and have sourced an EDIS6 module.
the current EF coil pack looks like it should be fine, EF has a 36-1 tooth wheel and i imagine i'd simply have to relocate the VR sensor to 60 degrees BTDC (if i've read right)

just wanted to know if there was a reason specifically on the 4.0 for why it needed the synch.


IIRC you will also need some form of driver for the coil pack?? The guys have been sourcing them from magnas. Check some of waggin's threads because he used them in the motec install....

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:42 pm 
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i beleive thats what the EDIS6 module is.
or atleast thats what i got from the other threads and other things i've read.
if thats not the case then yeah i'll have to find those, but i'm pretty sure the EDIS6 module has the igniters in it (like the EF ECU does)

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:53 pm 
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EFFalcon wrote:
i beleive thats what the EDIS6 module is.
or atleast thats what i got from the other threads and other things i've read.
if thats not the case then yeah i'll have to find those, but i'm pretty sure the EDIS6 module has the igniters in it (like the EF ECU does)


Ah yes, that sounds about right. Sorry for adding confusion :oops:

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:23 pm 
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EFFalcon wrote:
Yeah i have read through the megasquirt stuff and have sourced an EDIS6 module.
the current EF coil pack looks like it should be fine, EF has a 36-1 tooth wheel and i imagine i'd simply have to relocate the VR sensor to 60 degrees BTDC (if i've read right)

just wanted to know if there was a reason specifically on the 4.0 for why it needed the synch.


what is the BTDC of the ef is it not 60 degrees and if not how will you relocate it the VR that is? remount it or just turn wheel

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:31 pm 
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i doubt its 60 degrees, when the timing case is off, TDC is when the 2 cogs are pointing each other, which i'm guessing would be ~45 degrees?

so i'm guessing a modified bracket to move it around 15 degrees.

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:39 pm 
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ok cool do you no this for sure or does anyone else no cos i have all gear for my ms and i will have to do this s**t to maybe or can you just put in the BTDC figure in as 45 degrees in the ecu setup?

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:43 pm 
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i'm not quite sure how much of a difference it makes to yours as i'm not using a megasquirt, i'm using a megajolt which i know is similar, yet i don't know JUST how similar

i just know that for mine it has to be 60 degrees BTDC.
so i'll be doing that most likely by using a modfied bracket.

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:47 pm 
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actually, i've interpreted what is required wrong.
i'll take another look at it in a min.

 

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