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EFI to carby conversion 

 

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 Post subject: Re: EFI to carby conversion
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:19 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Toa wrote:
Hi guys, newbie here, been looking for the past couple of hours but I can't find the info.

I have just purchased a carby XF and I was wondering if I got a 4.0L donk, some compatiable mounts, sway bar and stuff. Would I be able to get an intake manifold, or use existing manifold to fit a carby to the 4.0L motor?

As I will be running the car on LPG 98% of the time, this sort of negates the advantages of MPFI, and if I keep it carbified this should in theory take away alot of the trouble of looms and computers.

Do all the 4.0L engines have computer controlled spark? If not, which ones don't? either way there should be a relatively affordable spark/timing computer available to do the job. (I've seen them for $300 to suit chevs)

Ultimately a BA I6 would be the go but can these motors run without the ECU? I've read somewhere here that the AU I6 can't because of the VCT, does the BA I6 have VCT?

My aim is to get the newest/smoothest style of I6 that can be made to run on a carby, and go into an XF.

Cheers guys and thanks for any help.



hi


dont know what ur chasing power or econnomy on straight LPgas ???

the SOHC 4.0lt from the early EA right upto the AU would be a better chiose than the old 250 pushrod engine .

the intake manifold to use is the CPi type easy to adapt a gas mixers of some sort as these manifolds are plentiful around the place

the ignition system is easy mod , the xe or xf Bosch electronic distributor can be adapted to fit the SODC 4.0lt engines a very straight forward mod.

as we all know gas likes more initial timing and less total advance timing , so to get the correct ignition advance curve for that combination of motor and to just run straight LPgas is once again straight forward ie u may try it in the back streets of where u live or just hire a dyno and get the air/fuel ratio mixture right and the ignition timing curve right for the engine ( not no ECU or messy wiring of any sort needed ).


But if ur chasing power( HI performance ) on LPgas another thought is us the BBm manifold and get a gas research LPgas carby(mixer) play around with this im sure u will make more power accross the whole rev range. OK the BBM manifold can be switched on by a micro switch of the accelrator cable somewhere ie the throttle shaft of the Mixer or the accelerator pedal it self not a hard problem to solve the switching of the manifold. and no ECU required again

Can also gut the throttle shaft and butterflys out of the BBM manifold if u dont want to muck around with the micro switch,12volt relay and vacumm soliniod to operate the BBm manifold ).

i did something similar for a customer in a XF station wagon a few years ago , this guy wanted no loss of poweer on LPgas as he towed a trailer and covered over a 1000km's per week , no petrol on the car what so ever and had over 200lts of LPgas tanks onboard . in the end i produced more power on LPgas than what he had on petrol .

remember LPgas has a higher octane reating than petrol so compression can be raised , greater squeeze more power :wink: the LPgas the right conditions and u will have fun on gas


cheers

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:38 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Toa wrote:
bogan393 wrote:
If hes runing straight gas then emissions should be a problem should they?
That's a seriously good point bogan, can anyone verify this?




Thanks Hoges, that's some very useful info, I will check out those other forums. I just haven't driven a crossflow which has been as smooth and powerful as the later I6's.

The price factor isn't really that much of an issue as I'm in the process of getting back to grass roots with my vehicles, I've just sold the missus's rav4 and am in the process of selling my VX berlina, VT SS and '01 4x4 dual cab triton.

I'm trying to get back to cheaper simpler things and learning to be less materialistic and more humble, but at the same time I'd like the XF Spak I just bought for $200 be as comfortable and reliable as I can get, and dropping a newish donk in her seems to be a way to achieve that.

I'm not ruling out the conversion yet as I have a wrecker mate who owes me a big favour, and any of the newer I6's are within reach, I just don't like the hassle of all the ECU's and BCM's that you have to deal with in cars nowadays.

Why not just buy a E series car??? cheap as, i wouldnt be spending thousands, and time on a XF, much more comfort in a E series, get ans EF for 5000, and you get a 4.0l motor. Earlier E series are even cheaper.
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Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:59 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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FPV_GTp I'm mainly after more durability and reliabitlity than anything else, you know, being able to feel confident that the car will be able to tow a loaded tandem trailer on a 800klm round trip with no sweat or hassle, or myself being able to go interstate for work and not having to worry about my missus and kids driving around in it and hoping it'll not break down on them. But also having LPG nowadays is almost a necessity if you do a lot of driving.

Thanks heaps for your input mate it's very useful info.
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Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:25 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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bowsaw wrote:
Why not just buy a E series car???
Toa previously wrote:
I'm in the process of getting back to grass roots with my vehicles.

I'm trying to get back to cheaper simpler things and learning to be less materialistic and more humble, but at the same time I'd like the XF Spak I just bought for $200 be as comfortable and reliable as I can get, and dropping a newish donk in her seems to be a way to achieve that.


bowsaw wrote:
cheap as, i wouldnt be spending thousands, and time on a XF
Toa previously wrote:
I have a wrecker mate who owes me a big favour, and any of the newer I6's are within reach


bowsaw wrote:
much more comfort in a E series
I have owned E and X series falcons in the past and I personally don't think that the E's have it over the X's in comfort.

bowsaw wrote:
get ans EF for 5000, and you get a 4.0l motor. Earlier E series are even cheaper.
Check it out bowsaw, http://www.autotrader.com.au/dealerprod ... isplay.asp the EF's start at $2500 over here
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Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:15 am 
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2500 s**t, that cheap,
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 Post subject: late model LPgas conversion with simple gas system
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:45 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Location: Melbourne
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Toa wrote:
FPV_GTp I'm mainly after more durability and reliabitlity than anything else, you know, being able to feel confident that the car will be able to tow a loaded tandem trailer on a 800klm round trip with no sweat or hassle, or myself being able to go interstate for work and not having to worry about my missus and kids driving around in it and hoping it'll not break down on them. But also having LPG nowadays is almost a necessity if you do a lot of driving.

Thanks heaps for your input mate it's very useful info.


hi

OK , u just want something very reliable and still have pulling power

my personal opinion yes a EF motor with a CPI manifold and the base of the throttle body to use as ur butterflys and just bolt a complex mixer to the top where the 2 injectors used to sit above the throtle plates using a simple B2 convertor , slightly raise the compression ratio as gas will handle it its not a perfomance thing just giving gas the right conditions to run in which will in the end give u good power results for towing.

Something to consider is a double base throttle body as one will be restrictive but hey thats stuffing around ( more power tho ) ???????

slight modifications like port matching inlet manifold and exhaust manifold ( might consider extractors ) will help also

cylinder head work depends wot ur budget allows , the EF is a alloy head with hardened seats but u may consider putting in better seats and guides and valves and remember LPgas is a dryer fuel so some method of upper valve and cylinder lubrication would help also there are a few systems out there to have a look at all basically do the same job.


Use a XD XE XF Bosch electronic distributor to control the timing , they are not hard to modify to get the right advance curve to suit LPgas and to modify to fit the SOHC 4.0lt EF engine.

Since ur not going to have petrol onboard at all bigger storage LPgas tanks will be required if ur planning on long country runs as alot of country petrol stations dont have LPgas refilling ( fit heavier duty rear springs also to accomidate the weight increase over rear axle )

This is basically back to grass roots stuff easy to work on parts available cheap and nothing complex about the setup and im sure it would be reliable .

i gather u will run a automatic behind it , once again the borg warner transmission will bolt up behind the different bellhousing pattern of the new motor , cause the EA and somr of the other E series come out with the 3 spd B/W trans , overdrive 4spd would be nice but more headaches to consider .


cheers

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:10 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Yeah bowsaw, in the last 6 months the prices of second hand cars has come way down, it may have something to do with fuel prices.
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Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:57 am 
Oompa Loompa
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FPV_GTp I take it that the CPI manifold can suit engines upto EL? do they also suit AU and BA?

In reality I still want to use petrol occasionly so I will be fitting a carby on the manifold and just disabling it to get it over the pits.

What is the easiest way to up the compression a bit? shaving the head? also by how much 30 thou? If I was to do this would I also need to alter anything else? I can also see advantages in fuel economy by doing this.

Does using a double base tb incur any loss of bottom end torque? approx how much are these units?

I wasn't planning on doing any head work, but I think that flashlube stuff will take care of the extra lube needed.

I've heard of issues with fitting XD,XE,XF dizzys to 4.0 donks in relation to fouling, does using the CFI manifold overcome this?

The XF does have an auto behind it but with the motor change I will be looking at finding a T5 to suit.

Thanks for all your help mate, I was just wondering, where abouts is the workshop that you work at? is it on the east or west side?

Cheers
Toa
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Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:08 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Location: Melbourne
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Toa wrote:
FPV_GTp I take it that the CPI manifold can suit engines upto EL? do they also suit AU and BA?

In reality I still want to use petrol occasionly so I will be fitting a carby on the manifold and just disabling it to get it over the pits.

What is the easiest way to up the compression a bit? shaving the head? also by how much 30 thou? If I was to do this would I also need to alter anything else? I can also see advantages in fuel economy by doing this.

Does using a double base tb incur any loss of bottom end torque? approx how much are these units?

I wasn't planning on doing any head work, but I think that flashlube stuff will take care of the extra lube needed.

I've heard of issues with fitting XD,XE,XF dizzys to 4.0 donks in relation to fouling, does using the CFI manifold overcome this?

The XF does have an auto behind it but with the motor change I will be looking at finding a T5 to suit.

Thanks for all your help mate, I was just wondering, where abouts is the workshop that you work at? is it on the east or west side?

Cheers
Toa



hi


i will checkand see if the webber downdraft paatern will fit the CPI manifold looks close but havent tryed to bolt one
i will check and get back to u

the EA to AU cylinder heads ( engines ) have the same manifold intake and exhaust bolt patterns

BA not sure ??????

as im trying to hold of a BA engine cheap myself will have to get back on that question ????


western suburbs what side of town are u ??

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:33 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Location: out bush
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Hi FPV_GTp, I live on a farm 2.5 hours north of melb but I do work in melb three days a week, and my workshop is in sunshine. I've just purchased a car hoist so I will be able to do a bit more on cars, I'm by no means a mechanic I just like to tinker.

You seem to know what's going on FPV_GTp and I appreciate your help.

Cheers
Toa
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