Fordmods Logo

EL Fairmont not starting :'( 

 

Page 1 of 2 [ 16 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next

 
 Post subject: EL Fairmont not starting :'(
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:58 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Age: 30

Posts: 109

Joined: 29th Jul 2005

Ride: BA XT

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

hello,
my EL fairmont has started acting up recently. The problem is that sometimes when i try to start the car, there is a "click" sound from under the bonnet (starter motor?), followed by silence. The car will then refuse to start on subsequent attempts. The click is accompanied by the normal whine of the fuel pump. Also, the battery voltage reads a healthy 13.5 to 14 while this happens (new battery installed in attempt to fix the problem). When i do get the car to start (it will start sometimes for no apparent reason), it will be pretty rough on first go.. but all seems okay on second or third go. I am pretty sure that the inhibitor switch is okay.. since tapping/rattling the gear selected while in park or neutral does not help. Are these the signs of a dying starter motor?(note: the when the car does start, it starts a little rough on first go, but starts like a champ on second or third go). Or could it be sumthing more complex?.. The car is an EL Fairmont 4 litre 6, with 207000 on the clock. Any one have any ideas or have any experience with this problem? any suggestions would be appreciated.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:04 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline
User avatar

Age: 43

Posts: 204

Joined: 23rd May 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EL Futura

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

I had similar problems, but was fixed with a removal and clean out of the inhib switch - although yours sounds like there might be more to it.

If the car starts when you jiggle the gear lever, it may mean the slector linkage isnt sitting quite right and needs adjustment See a gregories manual for details...

 

_________________

Thorpy says single wipers are Fully SIK!

EL Futura Dynamic White
Tickford Suspension
K&N Hi flow and XR8 snorkel
DBA Slots and braided lines

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:19 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 33

Posts: 5924

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 7 images

Ride: Ford FPV FG F6 310

Power: 149 rwkw

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

sounds like it's either the starter motor or the bem.
when you go to crank it, tap the plastic panel to the left of the steering column (above your knee) and if it starts, chances are it's the bem, and it'll have a dry solder joint and will require it to be replaced or repaired.

 

_________________

NEW RIDE - FPV FG F6 6spd Auto. 12.26@114MPH, 1.88 60FT on Cheapy Tyres with 38PSI - Stock except K&N filter!

R.I.P. BF XR6 Turbo - You will not be forgotten :( 12.06@120MPH

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:45 pm 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Age: 30

Posts: 109

Joined: 29th Jul 2005

Ride: BA XT

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

smoke_rubber wrote:
sounds like it's either the starter motor or the bem.
when you go to crank it, tap the plastic panel to the left of the steering column (above your knee) and if it starts, chances are it's the bem, and it'll have a dry solder joint and will require it to be replaced or repaired.
thanx for the advice. as i said in the post.. the problem is intermittent. I went just now to start the car, but i tapped the plastic panel before cranking the engine. The car started first go.. howeever i'm not sure if tapping the plastic panel fixed the issue, as many times in the past, the problem would go away for no apparent reason.... anywayz, could u specify what symptoms are caused by a bad BEM module? please note that when the car refuses to start, it makes a clicking noise from the engine bay or starter motor. Therefore power is being sent to the starter?.. If the BEM module was faulty, wouldn't there be no power sent to the starter?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:01 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 31

Posts: 874

Joined: 24th Sep 2005

Ride: EL Monty

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Mine did that recently, sometimes it refused to start at all, and id drop it into neutral and it would start every time. It hasnt happened for a while now. Would that be the inhibitor? If so is it expensive?
Cheers
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:17 am 
Fordmods Newbie
Offline

Posts: 7

Joined: 19th Feb 2006

Location: Toowoomba
QLD, Australia

I had a similar problem with my el futura a few months back. Turned out to be the sensor in the dizzy playing up, my mechanic uncle says he's seen it a fair bit in all different cars.

in my case the problem started out same as yours and got worse as time went by.. finally got to a point where it died and had to get a tow.
I used an analogue voltmeter to test the output signal of the TFI module to diagnose the prob.

I can give you more detail if you need it

although this wouldn't explain lack of response from the starter
cheers
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:45 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 30

Posts: 4609

Joined: 29th Jul 2005

Gallery: 10 images

Ride: BOXCAR

Location: Launceston
TAS, Australia

malazn_mafia wrote:
smoke_rubber wrote:
sounds like it's either the starter motor or the bem.
when you go to crank it, tap the plastic panel to the left of the steering column (above your knee) and if it starts, chances are it's the bem, and it'll have a dry solder joint and will require it to be replaced or repaired.
thanx for the advice. as i said in the post.. the problem is intermittent. I went just now to start the car, but i tapped the plastic panel before cranking the engine. The car started first go.. howeever i'm not sure if tapping the plastic panel fixed the issue, as many times in the past, the problem would go away for no apparent reason.... anywayz, could u specify what symptoms are caused by a bad BEM module? please note that when the car refuses to start, it makes a clicking noise from the engine bay or starter motor. Therefore power is being sent to the starter?.. If the BEM module was faulty, wouldn't there be no power sent to the starter?


Yes, the BEM module is a part of the smartlock system. If there is no start signal sent from the BEM to the ECU (which then follows onto the starter motor) the car won't start. This is how the Smartlock immobilises the car if any form of hotwiring takes place.

 

_________________

^^^ What He Said

<a href="http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=44952" target="_blank" class="postlink"> TAS Cruises</a>

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:11 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 6432

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 6 images

Yes but if the starter motor is clacking then doesn't it follow that the signal is being passed to it from the BEM? Sounds to me like the starter motor could be at fault.

 

_________________

5.6L of carbon footprint.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:32 am 
Smokin em up
Offline
User avatar

Age: 43

Posts: 204

Joined: 23rd May 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EL Futura

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Alaskan - sounds like classic inhib switch problem to me. $95 from Fraud, or try cleaning it first. Watch out though, cause its hard to remove and easy to break. I know. :?

 

_________________

Thorpy says single wipers are Fully SIK!

EL Futura Dynamic White
Tickford Suspension
K&N Hi flow and XR8 snorkel
DBA Slots and braided lines

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:40 am 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Age: 30

Posts: 109

Joined: 29th Jul 2005

Ride: BA XT

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

hmmz.. doesnt seem to be the inhibitor switch as car does the same thing in park or neutral. If i attempt to start the car in gear other than park or neutral, there is no clacking sound from engine bay. Also rattling/thumping gear selector while trying to crank doesn't do any good.

Was wondering how the ignition system work on these cars. Is the starter solenoid part of the starter motor? Or is it separate? The click when the car refuses to start may be the solenoid engaging the starter to the engine? If thats the case, the starter motor may be jammed up or have a damaged armature and refuse to move when it stops in a certain position?

Last edited by malazn_mafia on Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:42 am 
Stock as a Rock
Offline
User avatar

Age: 30

Posts: 109

Joined: 29th Jul 2005

Ride: BA XT

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

q9922218 wrote:
I had a similar problem with my el futura a few months back. Turned out to be the sensor in the dizzy playing up, my mechanic uncle says he's seen it a fair bit in all different cars.

in my case the problem started out same as yours and got worse as time went by.. finally got to a point where it died and had to get a tow.
I used an analogue voltmeter to test the output signal of the TFI module to diagnose the prob.

I can give you more detail if you need it

although this wouldn't explain lack of response from the starter
cheers


what problems were caused by the sensor in the dizzy? Did you experience a clicking noise from the starter/engine bay when attempting to crank engine?

thanks
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:20 am 
Parts Gopher
Offline

Posts: 96

Joined: 1st Apr 2005

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Get a multimeter between the pos and negative battery terminals and see if you get a big voltage drop when you turn the key to start.
if so, then it could be the starter motor or solenoid.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:27 am 
Technical Contributor
Offline
User avatar

Age: 53

Posts: 5587

Joined: 14th Jan 2005

Gallery: 10 images

Ride: 96 XH/97 EL

Location: South Coast
NSW, Australia

Well going on what has been mentioned so far, it seems like a starter motor issue - you need to find out for sure where the clicking is coming from. If the clicking is coming from the starter motor, that will be the solenoid throwing out like it should do, but the motor is not engaging, maybe because the motor itself is shagged, the drive gear might have damaged teeth, making engagement intermitent, or the engine driveplate may have damaged teeth also (worst case).
Easier things to check first:
1. The starter relay sits at the back of the 4 relays that sit in front of the engine fusible link box, have a listen to see if it clicks when the engine is attempted to start - better still, swap it with one of the other relays and see if this fixes the problem.
2. Check with a meter either terminal 86 or 87 of the starter relay mounting base to earth, your auto selector in N or P should show a short to earth, in gear should be open cct - this tests the inhibitor switch.
3. Check your high current connections between the battery and starter motor.
4. Unmount your BEM and unplug and plug in the connectors, wiggle them whilst trying to crank the engine - I can't see this doing much, but try it just in case.
5. Otherwise, looks like a starter motor removal - if you reckon you're getting 13.5 - 14v across the battery while cranking, the power is making it only to the solenoid, not the motor, as it should drop a couple of volts more.

 

_________________

96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:16 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 31

Posts: 874

Joined: 24th Sep 2005

Ride: EL Monty

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Spannerhead, is the inhib switch easy to get to? and or clean? I'm not too good engine wise, changing an oil filter is about as far as my knowledge goes atm
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:56 pm 
Fordmods Newbie
Offline

Posts: 7

Joined: 19th Feb 2006

Location: Toowoomba
QLD, Australia

Quote:
what problems were caused by the sensor in the dizzy? Did you experience a clicking noise from the starter/engine bay when attempting to crank engine?


Second thought i doubt it would be the dizzy sensor (unless it's a number of problems).. i had same symptoms but my starter always ran without fail... failure of the dizzy sensor starts with intermittent loss of spark

you could take the starter out and apply 12v directly to see if it runs properly and also inspect for damage. but the problem sounds like it might be more complex that that to me

have you narrowed down where the clicking comes from yet?
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 38 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:30 pm All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names