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EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel 

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:30 am 
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those $20000 diagnostic machines must be just for show if $5 can of wd can do it....
17 year old ford service technicians may do it that way. i don't wanna pay for that!
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:36 am 
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and yes... if you cant see then torch and mirror will help.
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:42 am 
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if the guy wanted to spend his hard earned cash on a mechanic he would have gone to one, just sounds like he wants to work it out him self (with some help).. that is what this site is for, yes??
I was just making a suggestion on where he could start looking...

As for the $20,000 diagnostic unit: http://www.fordmods.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=31656 worth a read..

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:51 am 
Stock as a Rock
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Location: gold coast
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no offense meant. i'm just saying theres only so much you can do spraying wd everywhere.. i don't pay for anything i can do myself... but sometimes you gotta cough up the cash! at least you get a warranty...a good mechanic might charge a lot hourly, but he'll have it done quickly.. and tell you what he's doing. the hardest part is finding one! that computer can tell you a lot.. why not use it? hours and hours of skinned knuckles at the side of the road are all well and good if you know what your looking for...
a good mechanic can mean the difference of weekly dramas or one-off cost...reliability is the key..
unless he is a mechanic then he's, um, set...
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:10 am 
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Location: gold coast
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sexyr6 wrote:
if the guy wanted to spend his hard earned cash on a mechanic he would have gone to one, just sounds like he wants to work it out him self (with some help).. that is what this site is for, yes??
I was just making a suggestion on where he could start looking...

As for the $20,000 diagnostic unit: http://www.fordmods.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=31656 worth a read..

no offense to muzza, but bit different from full mechanics diagnostic machine; don't care what any one says. muzza's would be handy, but really not much good for serious problems...without, that is, the knowledge/tools to solve them......
please anyone correct me if i'm wrong... mite be interested in one of these, just to tell my mechanic (who is awesome and always spot on...and charges like a malley bull; but i only see for services, these days!) what i think is wrong...
get a tune. lpg probly running lean...check airflow....
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:16 am 
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btw guys my dads a mechanic, but hes dazzled over the problem i just wanted to get some hints as to where to start. he blames the converter...

changed the dizzy... it died on me a few weeks back.... and the dizzy was the cause so changed the coils anyway..

sometimes the idling rough is so bad the whole car shakes and sometimes feels like one of the cylinders have dropped out or something... so i think its in the sparks or plugs somewere :S

although sent it to a mech a while ago... say about 10-20K ago... and he "said" he changed the plugs.. so not too sure...

Quote:
Does vehicle show same problems on either fuel? If you have changed dizzys, timing could be out badly.


same problems yet runs a little better on fuel. less idling probs runs like crap = power delivery....

changed dizzy a week or 2 ago.
-------
Quote:
mate, forget injector cleaner fuel additive/wd-40.. preventative at best. check your plugs..are all completely black and gummed up? even 1?? prob'ly not..
book it in for an off car injector clean, then a service, then a tune up. from a good mechanic. cheap fixes, like wd-40 wont do it. spend the money...if it is a major electrical/computer problem, the diagnostic will pick it up. anything else is a waste of time.


ill get that done on sunday.. ill go to the workshop my old man works at and hell have a look at it spark plugs were changed about 10-20k ago.. but ill have a deeper look this weekend since im off..

you can do a diagnosis by putting some pins in the holes under the dash yes? can anyone link me?
Quote:
Sounds like a vacume leak somewere, go crazy with a tin of WD40 while the engine is idleing, if it has a leak the engine will pick up when you spray it (the hole that is)..


will do.

Quote:
id start by cleaning the throttle body out with carby cleaner and the isc aswell


ill try that too.
whats an isc?

Quote:
vac leak wont cause these dramas. not a minor one anyway. a major one, and you got problems! timing, spark or injectors are the obvious solutions, and a diagnostic will pick all of them. spark not likley..new plugs and leads(and timing) should fix that...timing pretty obvious; dissie fixes that.. major misfires are probly injectors. not always, but probly. how many k's?? injectors should be done off-car every 50-60000 k's. i only know this cause i've had similar dramas: mine not missing, but high warm idle and rough throttle, jerky acceleration, esp. under load..my lpg throttle response weakish(even for lpg), but tune sorted that.. petrol; always gonna be stronger, except maybe for lpg injection....trust me; go to a good mechanic and tune properly. theres a reason they charge so much... they know how to do it properly!


changed dissie a while ago.. i think one of the cylinders sparks arent working or theres a problem in there somewere..
rough throttle and jerky acel is my problem too...
my dad is a mechanic as i said but hes got a huge list as to what to do and where to go so i came here for ideas.

Quote:
ps if your plugs do look like crap, then it;s time to start taking more care. change your oil! at least!!! that means your filter too. then the plugs.
check your gaskets. sucking too much air thru the wrong place can do bad things..head gasket; you'll miss, AND suck water into cylinders. inlet manifold, and you'll lose pressure....and that could affect VACUUM.


gonna check the plugs tommorow or on sunday....
changed oil about 1000k ago and filter.
does drop a bit of water after a bit of a thrashing to be honest. i mean high revs...
ill look into the vac leaks.
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:30 am 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 46

Posts: 104

Joined: 9th Jul 2009

Ride: 1995 XG ute

Location: gold coast
QLD, Australia

born2b wrote:
btw guys my dads a mechanic, but hes dazzled over the problem i just wanted to get some hints as to where to start. he blames the converter...

changed the dizzy... it died on me a few weeks back.... and the dizzy was the cause so changed the coils anyway..

sometimes the idling rough is so bad the whole car shakes and sometimes feels like one of the cylinders have dropped out or something... so i think its in the sparks or plugs somewere :S

although sent it to a mech a while ago... say about 10-20K ago... and he "said" he changed the plugs.. so not too sure...

Quote:
Does vehicle show same problems on either fuel? If you have changed dizzys, timing could be out badly.


same problems yet runs a little better on fuel. less idling probs runs like crap = power delivery....

changed dizzy a week or 2 ago.
-------
Quote:
mate, forget injector cleaner fuel additive/wd-40.. preventative at best. check your plugs..are all completely black and gummed up? even 1?? prob'ly not..
book it in for an off car injector clean, then a service, then a tune up. from a good mechanic. cheap fixes, like wd-40 wont do it. spend the money...if it is a major electrical/computer problem, the diagnostic will pick it up. anything else is a waste of time.


ill get that done on sunday.. ill go to the workshop my old man works at and hell have a look at it spark plugs were changed about 10-20k ago.. but ill have a deeper look this weekend since im off..

you can do a diagnosis by putting some pins in the holes under the dash yes? can anyone link me?
Quote:
Sounds like a vacume leak somewere, go crazy with a tin of WD40 while the engine is idleing, if it has a leak the engine will pick up when you spray it (the hole that is)..


will do.

Quote:
id start by cleaning the throttle body out with carby cleaner and the isc aswell


ill try that too.
whats an isc?

Quote:
vac leak wont cause these dramas. not a minor one anyway. a major one, and you got problems! timing, spark or injectors are the obvious solutions, and a diagnostic will pick all of them. spark not likley..new plugs and leads(and timing) should fix that...timing pretty obvious; dissie fixes that.. major misfires are probly injectors. not always, but probly. how many k's?? injectors should be done off-car every 50-60000 k's. i only know this cause i've had similar dramas: mine not missing, but high warm idle and rough throttle, jerky acceleration, esp. under load..my lpg throttle response weakish(even for lpg), but tune sorted that.. petrol; always gonna be stronger, except maybe for lpg injection....trust me; go to a good mechanic and tune properly. theres a reason they charge so much... they know how to do it properly!


changed dissie a while ago.. i think one of the cylinders sparks arent working or theres a problem in there somewere..
rough throttle and jerky acel is my problem too...
my dad is a mechanic as i said but hes got a huge list as to what to do and where to go so i came here for ideas.

Quote:
ps if your plugs do look like crap, then it;s time to start taking more care. change your oil! at least!!! that means your filter too. then the plugs.
check your gaskets. sucking too much air thru the wrong place can do bad things..head gasket; you'll miss, AND suck water into cylinders. inlet manifold, and you'll lose pressure....and that could affect VACUUM.


gonna check the plugs tommorow or on sunday....
changed oil about 1000k ago and filter.
does drop a bit of water after a bit of a thrashing to be honest. i mean high revs...
ill look into the vac leaks.


mate i'm no mechanic but has you or your dad thought of head gasket?? just a small hole can give you a bad headache eventually.! and hard to spot til it happens!! trust me! if running rough and losing water could be that.. i still reckcon put it on the diag machine.... or even exhaust manifold gasket mite do this..... lpg is a cooler, cleaner but dryer burn, so check rings, valves, compression.................
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:37 am 
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Ride: EL Falcon

Location: Sydney- west
NSW, Australia

Quote:
mate i'm no mechanic but has you or your dad thought of head gasket?? just a small hole can give you a bad headache eventually.! and hard to spot til it happens!! trust me! if running rough and losing water could be that.. i still reckcon put it on the diag machine.... or even exhaust manifold gasket mite do this..... lpg is a cooler, cleaner but dryer burn, so check rings, valves, compression.................[/quote]

it used to lose water but he fixed that, it had a leak somewere.. it spits water through the hole that its supposed to come out of* sorry to confuse..

it doesnt heat up at all though..

the water used to boil after a while of thrashing ie. hi revs and full throttle. i would notice water coming out of its proper hole and a sort of boiling.. so it comes out.. is that normal?
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:41 am 
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Age: 46

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Location: gold coast
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born2b wrote:
Quote:
mate i'm no mechanic but has you or your dad thought of head gasket?? just a small hole can give you a bad headache eventually.! and hard to spot til it happens!! trust me! if running rough and losing water could be that.. i still reckcon put it on the diag machine.... or even exhaust manifold gasket mite do this..... lpg is a cooler, cleaner but dryer burn, so check rings, valves, compression.................


it used to lose water but he fixed that, it had a leak somewere.. it spits water through the hole that its supposed to come out of* sorry to confuse..

it doesnt heat up at all though..

the water used to boil after a while of thrashing ie. hi revs and full throttle. i would notice water coming out of its proper hole and a sort of boiling.. so it comes out.. is that normal?[/quote]

not sure what you mean by proper hole, ther is none!!.. you should not see any water spitting out anywhere! should not sort of boil...if it is not heating up but you see it boiling....could be thermostat buggered; still sounds like head gasket, if running rough/missing.
radiator overheats then will overflow into..overflow(plastic case with large bubbles on top left hand side near battery that you put water/radiator fluid into..) or out side of radiator cap, out the hose but normal engine will not boil or leak water at all. if chewing water with no obvious leak then probly is head gasket... SHOULD NOT SPIT WATER from anywhere!!! engine should run coolish ie temp gauge needle in dash should not get much above "C". if your gauge says this but water is boiling then your thermostat is probly buggered.. problems! thermostat usually at end of rad hose in block...if this is happenning then DO NOT GO FULL THROTTLE EVER!!!!!!!! YOU WILL COOK ENGINE!!!! water and oil do not mix. check your head gasket!!!!
if it is spitting water, thats not right. mite not be head but still not good. find the source of spit and fix it!
get your dad to drive it and put it on diagnostic...........gaskets are to seal engine and water to keep engine cool...hi revs/thrashing no real test cos that puts a lot of excess pressure on engine, and will make any problems worse, or seem worse. is there an oil leak???? what does the oil look like on the dip=sitck?? bubbly-yellow/grey means water in block.. black means old/dirty. clear/amber means clean/new. none means none!!!
normal idle temp is real test.. if spitting water or hi temp's at idle after 5 mins or so then you have problems. start from cold and let warm up for 2-5 mins....
mate; no offense to your dad, but take it to lpg specialist.....
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:06 am 
Stock as a Rock
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Joined: 9th Jul 2009

Ride: 1995 XG ute

Location: gold coast
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cant get stupid avatar to accept my tiny pic of my sweet el.. 984.OEL is my plate (please tell me you get it..). none of my non-ford mates do..idiots
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:10 am 
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Location: gold coast
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ps 98 el futura..."ford" blue, cam, full exhaust, ss induction, lowered, lsd, xr6 mags(soon to go), 5 spd man, dual-fuel,...6 coats of maguires wax....!
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:48 pm 
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okay huge update guys...

sorry have been away from the comp for quiet a while...

now.. i solved the issue thanks to this forums brilliant minds... my dads a procrastinator hes way too busy so i got around to it myself...

First i bought some WYNNS Fuel injector cleaner... which helped quiet a fair bit.. ran it on petrol.. i used the 300ml bottle in about 20 litres instead of 50

that fixed a fair bit of the problem.. but just to be sure..

i bought some throttle body cleaner... cleaned the MAP sensor.. then had a crack at the throttle body sensor then the ICS Idle something something... once all that was done i cleaned some of the obvious vacuum lines i could see with the throttle body cleaner..

and yeah. that takes care of my crazy idle issues.. where the idle jumps like crazy up and down..

although on petrol its still very dead-laggy umm not responsive etc? upto 2500rpm but i think thats the timing and doesnt run too great on petrol but way better than before...

LPG runs great.. no problems at all..

IDLE IS GREAT SMOOTH and sexy lol.

and gonna do a comprehensive clean (MAYBE) of the lpg converter anyway..

now there were some things that still are wrong..

the engine is ticking.. i think its the lifters? or its the spark plugs/leads... gonna get around to taking a look at them tommorow.. and the engine is sortof moving about a fair bit ie not totally shaking but just a tiny bit & thats at standstill...

but something is ticking ...
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon idling like **** and missing dual fuel
Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:07 pm 
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the ticking could be your injectors or hydrolic lifters, if it noticable inside the car it will be the lifters, throw some lifter treatment in your oil.. if that dosent work the you will need to replace them.. about $12 - $16 ea..

 

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