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EL Falcon was running, now it won't start! 

 

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 Post subject: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:34 pm 
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Hey guys, recently purchased my second Fairmont, got a 97 EL Fairmont, 240,000k.

Is pretty neat old rig, but when upon purchasing, the car felt like it had no power, and when under load or when over taking it would carry on and stutter really bad, on the drive home the car stopped, went into RACV, Fuel pump was gone, fixed it up, but still did the stutter thing when under load or accelerating quickly.

Then the other day gave it a quick degrease and the car ran really rough to the point in the car just stopping, towed to RACV, apparently the input or balancer shaft where the dizzy meshes into has warn teeth or "knife edged teeth" baring in mind the dizzy is 2 weeks old. Is this a common problem?

Could it be this balancer shaft or has washing the motor f**k the dizzy? I'm really in a pickle, guy reckons it would cost $2000 to fix.

any help would be muchly appreciated.

Brad
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:42 pm 
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Did you buy a Chinese Dizzy? When you replaced the Dizzy did you put the old gear from the dizzy on the new one?

Also check your coil and leads.
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:51 pm 
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Hey mate, bloke I bought it off said the car wouldn't start so his mechanic put a "motorcraft" dizzy in it.

Has anyone heard of these "balancer" shafts or input shafts that mesh in with the dizzy teeth, screw up?

Thanks for the replys guys :)
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:54 pm 
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If you sprayed degreaser into the distributor and then water, you most definitely got water into the distributor. This part is notorious for hating water, so a bit of moisture can stuff it up, especially the TFI module (the grey module that sits on the side of the distributor).

Stuttering could also be fuel related. If the fuel regulator hasn't been replaced, give that a shot and see what happens. When I bought my EL it had a stuttering issue under load and highway driving...as soon as you put the foot down on the highway it would hesitate to go.

If you haven't done so, you might want to give the car a good service. Oil, oil filter, air filter, leads, spark plugs, fuel filter and coolant. If you have spare money, diff, transmission and brake fluids is always a good idea.

EDIT:

Bradelz77 wrote:
Hey mate, bloke I bought it off said the car wouldn't start so his mechanic put a "motorcraft" dizzy in it.

Has anyone heard of these "balancer" shafts or input shafts that mesh in with the dizzy teeth, screw up?

Thanks for the replys guys :)


The shaft which the distributor meshes into usually doesn't fail, it is usually the teeth on the distributor of a cheap branded distributor that causes the problems for ruining the teeth.

 

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phongus = Post whore 2006
EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:58 pm 
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Hey mate, car was reallly lacking power it would hardly get to 100 km/h down low it was fine though. Also the blokes at RACV Motorcare reckon there were metal shavings where the dizzy sits, and were worried they would of gone thru the motor, reckons I should just replace the motor, but before I go and do anything drastic like that I want to make sure its not just some pesky module.

Brad
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:04 pm 
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phongus wrote:
The shaft which the distributor meshes into usually doesn't fail, it is usually the teeth on the distributor of a cheap branded distributor that causes the problems for ruining the teeth.


This is why I asked if the old gear was used from the original Dizzy. Gears then match and very few issues arise. Chinese dizzy's while cheap are usualy ok, the only issue being the gear which is usually crap.

As for spluttering under load -

1) Leads breaking down, ok when driving gently, s**t when under load.

2) Coil Breaking down.

3) Fule injectors blocked or dirty.

4) Dirty fuel filter. When the fuel pump was changed, did you do the fuel filter?

5) If coil is stuffed the TFI module will be dodgy or visa versa.

6) good service is a great idea
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:12 pm 
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So whats with the metal shavings could the balancer shaft really be buggered like they are telling me? If the teeth are buggered on the balancer shaft would that make the dizzy not mesh properly?

Cheers
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:15 pm 
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Bradelz77 wrote:
Hey mate, car was reallly lacking power it would hardly get to 100 km/h down low it was fine though. Also the blokes at RACV Motorcare reckon there were metal shavings where the dizzy sits, and were worried they would of gone thru the motor, reckons I should just replace the motor, but before I go and do anything drastic like that I want to make sure its not just some pesky module.

Brad


Check the fuel filter, if they are blocked, at high revs it bogs down since not enough fuel is passing through to the filters. Might be a good idea to run a bottle of injector cleaner once you've replaced the filter.

Also do an oil change and then use a strong magnet to see if you pick up a bit of metal shavings. If there are any shavings within the engine, most likely they will go into the sump and sit on the bottom, so best bet you will find them there.

A failing coil/leads or TFI module can also cause lack of power. More so the coil since it fails more as it gets hotter and if you're moving, most likely the coil will still be running good until it is under load or you turn the engine off, once off and if the coil is dead, it won't revive easily. TFI module will be intermittent regardless of speed or temperature and once it dies, it will just die as you drive along...so no warning.

Hope that is some help.

 

_________________

phongus = Post whore 2006
EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:20 pm 
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What are the teeth like on the Dizzy? Aux Shaft gears are usually harder than the dizzy gears for a reason, ie the dizzy gear will f**k out before the Aux Shaft.

As for filings, drop your oil, take off your rocker cover, remove the oil filter. Get about 5 litres of kero and flush your sump. Drain kero throgh a old pair of stockings etc and see what you collect. Drop in some cheap oil, Cheap oil filter, Refit rocker cover, run for a few minutes till warm, watch your oil pressure, and then drop your oil. Replace your filter with a new one and fill engine with quality oil. Away you go.
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:29 pm 
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phongus wrote:
Bradelz77 wrote:
Hey mate, car was reallly lacking power it would hardly get to 100 km/h down low it was fine though. Also the blokes at RACV Motorcare reckon there were metal shavings where the dizzy sits, and were worried they would of gone thru the motor, reckons I should just replace the motor, but before I go and do anything drastic like that I want to make sure its not just some pesky module.

Brad


Check the fuel filter, if they are blocked, at high revs it bogs down since not enough fuel is passing through to the filters. Might be a good idea to run a bottle of injector cleaner once you've replaced the filter.

Also do an oil change and then use a strong magnet to see if you pick up a bit of metal shavings. If there are any shavings within the engine, most likely they will go into the sump and sit on the bottom, so best bet you will find them there.

A failing coil/leads or TFI module can also cause lack of power. More so the coil since it fails more as it gets hotter and if you're moving, most likely the coil will still be running good until it is under load or you turn the engine off, once off and if the coil is dead, it won't revive easily. TFI module will be intermittent regardless of speed or temperature and once it dies, it will just die as you drive along...so no warning.

Hope that is some help.


Thanks for the quick reply guys, fuel filter was changed when pump was done, could it actually be the balancer shaft? If the teeth are knife edged?
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:30 pm 
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Haven't had the car towed home yet so I dunno about the Dizzy Shaft, I will take a look tommorow and do what you guys said, so should I get a new Dizzy and Coil, leads and plugs and try firing it into life?

Thanks lads.

Brad
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Guys had a look at the teeth on the dizzy, they are worn but mainly on the top half of the teeth, the aux shaft looks okay? but still doesn't explain the metal shavings found where the dizzy sits.. hmmm.

BRad
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Bradelz77 wrote:
Guys had a look at the teeth on the dizzy, they are worn but mainly on the top half of the teeth, the aux shaft looks okay? but still doesn't explain the metal shavings found where the dizzy sits.. hmmm.

BRad


The metal shavings near the distributor is most likely the shavings off the distributor teeth that are worn...

 

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phongus = Post whore 2006
EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:29 pm 
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after a closer look and reading some old threads on here, i can safely say that the aux shaft is f**k.

got 3 different quotes for bare long el motors today ranging from $550 to $770.. if I have an auto fairmont, would a xr6 motor or a ghia motor fit without changing anything? or do the xr motors have different ecu's?

thanks guys
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 Post subject: Re: EL Falcon was running, now it won't start!
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:37 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
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Joined: 17th May 2005

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Ride: EL Fairmont, VFR400 racer

Power: 144 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Bradelz77 wrote:
after a closer look and reading some old threads on here, i can safely say that the aux shaft is f**k.

got 3 different quotes for bare long el motors today ranging from $550 to $770.. if I have an auto fairmont, would a xr6 motor or a ghia motor fit without changing anything? or do the xr motors have different ecu's?

thanks guys


XR motors will fit just fine and can be run with standard ECU, however don't expect any power gains and it may not run the best. If the XR motor comes with the XR spec fuel regulator, then to get the full potential, I suggest sourcing out an XR/Ghia ECU for it.

I assume for that price it is a second hand non-reconditioned motor.

 

_________________

phongus = Post whore 2006
EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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